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Does anybody know what the normal guidelines are for carp?? When you catch a carp I see a lot of people throw them on the bank to rot. I know they are not a game fish but are they a nuisance? I don't have a problem junking a bunch of carp but I was curious if there are any laws regarding just leaving a carp on the shore. I was also curious if the carp numbers are too high and do they affect the other types of fish, mainly in Utah Lake?
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I always release the ones that I catch. I've seen other people throw them on the bank to rot. They mainly do it because they think that carp are junk. But they may do it in your part of the woods to control the population? I dont think there is a law that says you cant do that. It's your fish and you can do what you would like with it.
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Here's some info you're looking for taken from the Daily Herald archives:
[url "http://archive.harktheherald.com/archive_detail.php?archiveFile=./pubfiles/prv/archive/2003/November/17/LocalCity/6219.xml&start=0&numPer=20&keyword=utah+lake+carp&sectionSearch=&begindate=1%2F1%2F1997&enddate=12%2F31%2F2004&authorSearch=&IncludeStories=1&pubsection=&page=&IncludePages=&IncludeImages=&mode=allwords&archive_pubname=Heraldextra.com%0A%09%09%09"]http://archive.harktheherald.com/archive_detail.php?archiveFile=./pubfiles/prv/archive/2003/November/17/LocalCity/6219.xml&start=0&numPer=20&keyword=utah+lake+carp§ionSearch=&begindate=1%2F1%2F1997&enddate=12%2F31%2F2004&authorSearch=&IncludeStories=1&pubsection=&page=&IncludePages=&IncludeImages=&mode=allwords&archive_pubname=Heraldextra.com%0A%09%09%09[/url]
Restoration planned for lake's ecosystem Date November 17, 2003
Caleb Warnock
THE DAILY HERALD
Biologists of the June Sucker Recovery Implementation Program are hoping to reverse history.
Two hundred years ago, the ecosystem of Utah Lake could have been summed up like a child's rhyme: Utah Lake was alive with the birds that ate the fish that ate the bugs that ate the aquatic plants that thrived beneath the waters of the lake.
Today, those aquatic plants are gone, and with them has disappeared nearly every natural process in the lake, said Chris Keleher, conservation biologist with the recovery program.
"When aquatic plants are gone, then all the bugs that lived on them leave and the fish disappear," he said. "It's a big cascade effect."
It is Keleher's job to get the plants back -- a process that is expected to take 50 years and cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
The disappearance of the underwater plants is not a mystery. It began when raw sewage, filled with phosphorus, was dumped into the lake. With no drain, that phosphorus built up over decades, acting as a fertilizer to blue-green algae. As the algae thrived, it shaded out the sun, causing the underwater plant population to collapse.
"In a turbid state, the lake is dominated by
blue-green algae," Keleher said. "They can reproduce in such quantities that they shade everything else out."
As the aquatic plants died off, the June sucker fish also began to decline. Native only to Utah Lake, it was added to the list of federally protected species in 1986.
Today, at least eight federal, state and local agencies belong to -- and fund -- the June Sucker Recovery Program, said Reed Harris, director of the recovery program. Success will only come when the fish are able to live to adulthood and reproduce without human help -- something that has not happened for at least two decades.
The problems that must be solved before that will happen are myriad, said Keleher.
The first geological survey of Utah Lake in 1856 showed that water flowed from the mountains to the lake in seven different branches of the Provo River. Those branches fanned out into a delta as they neared the lake.
Each June at spawning time, the June sucker swam 1Ý miles upriver to lay their eggs in the gravel of that delta, also called an alluvial fan. Lodged into the gravel for protection, the eggs sat for up to six weeks before the larval fish hatched out. Not yet strong enough to swim, the young fish simply drifted on the current, protected from predators by reeds and grasses along the way.
Many of the eggs and fry were eaten by predator fish, but the vegetation protected enough of the young to ensure an adult June sucker population numbering in the millions.
Now, the ancient alluvial fan has been mostly turned into tract housing. Provo River has been narrowed to one channel, and the last 1Ý miles of that have been diked and dredged, removing both the gravel and the plants the June sucker fry depended on for protection from non-native predator fish such as the white bass.
The June sucker population has plummeted to 300, Harris said. Thousands of hatchery-raised June sucker have been released into the lake, but so far only 200 have returned to spawn. No fry have been found to survive in the wild.
"The river is now a canal rather than a delta," Keleher said. "The 1.5 miles upriver from the lake where the June sucker spawn is full of predators, and there is no way to get out to the lake. It is a gauntlet."
And so it has become clear that saving the June sucker means returning Utah Lake to its formerly pristine condition, Keleher said. That means reducing phosphorus -- at an estimated cost of nearly $230 million -- as well as restoring at least part of the historic alluvial fan. In addition, more water must flow into the lake, and aquatic plants must be restored.
And carp must be removed, Keleher said.
Introduced to Utah Lake in 1881 as a source of food, carp have now literally taken over the lake. Keleher estimates that if all the fish in Utah Lake could be weighed, 90.9 percent of that weight would be carp.
An estimated 7 million pounds of carp are removed from Utah Lake by commercial fishermen each year, but even that effort seems to make no dent in their population. As bottomfeeders, the fish root through the mud, destroying any aquatic plants that may take hold. Until carp populations are permanently reduced by at least 75 percent, scientists estimate that the bottom of Utah Lake will remain as vegetationless mud.
"Carp root around in the mud, and it doesn't allow the plants to come back," Keleher said.
To make matters worse, the carp routinely eat the mud, stirring up decades of phosphorus trapped in the sediment. Once in the water, that phosphorus is simply more fertilizer for the algae, Keleher said.
"Next year we will do a study to see if it is feasible to take the carp out of the lake using mechanical methods, but it has to be cost-effective," he said, noting that the study would also detail how much such an effort might cost.
Restoring all of Utah Lake to a clear-water state in one step is impossible, he said. However, the recovery team has some conceptual ideas of how small areas could be turned into managed sanctuaries. Enclosed from the rest of the lake, only phosphorus-free water would be allowed in, and aquatic plants could be cultivated. June sucker fry could be raised to adulthood before being released into the surrounding lake.
Keleher emphasizes that such plans are only concepts now, but if small sanctuaries could be successfully managed, the next step might be to turn all of Provo Bay into a clear-water sanctuary.
"And if the public saw small success, they might say, 'Let's do the whole lake,' " he said. "It's going to take a long time -- it took 150 years to get it the way it is now. What we should do is get it back to a clear lake, but what we will do depends largely upon the residents of Utah County."
Public support will need to include lakeside landowners agreeing to sell land at fair prices, he said. There is agricultural ground near the area where the Provo River meets Utah Lake that could be returned to an alluvial-fan state, but as development encroaches, time is running out to purchase the land.
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It's against the law to leave them to rot on the bank.
In the proc under section D, provision #5 it reads....
"Lawfully taken nongame fish shall be either released or killed immediately upon removing them from the water; however, they may not be abandoned on the shoreline."
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The proclamation reads:
"Lawfully taken nongame fish shall be either released or killed immediately upon removing them from the water; however, they may not be abandoned on the shoreline."
Let's just say this rule is often ignored.
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Also from the daily herald on Sunday Feb. 22, 2004:
[url "http://archive.harktheherald.com/archive_detail.php?archiveFile=./pubfiles/prv/archive/2004/February/22/LocalCity/14441.xml&start=0&numPer=20&keyword=utah+lake+carp&sectionSearch=&begindate=1%2F1%2F1997&enddate=12%2F31%2F2004&authorSearch=&IncludeStories=1&pubsection=&page=&IncludePages=&IncludeImages=&mode=allwords&archive_pubname=Heraldextra.com%0A%09%09%09"]http://archive.harktheherald.com/archive_detail.php?archiveFile=./pubfiles/prv/archive/2004/February/22/LocalCity/14441.xml&start=0&numPer=20&keyword=utah+lake+carp§ionSearch=&begindate=1%2F1%2F1997&enddate=12%2F31%2F2004&authorSearch=&IncludeStories=1&pubsection=&page=&IncludePages=&IncludeImages=&mode=allwords&archive_pubname=Heraldextra.com%0A%09%09%09[/url]
Experts seek opinion on getting rid of carp Date February 22, 2004
Caleb Warnock
THE DAILY HERALD
Local scientists are looking for residents with ideas on how to rid Utah Lake of its booming carp population.
Chris Keleher, conservation biologist with the June Sucker Recovery Implementation Program, said the carp are damaging the lake's ecosystem.
"We are advertising a request for proposals for carp removal feasibility," he said. "The request for proposals is to try to determine what level of effort it would take to get the carp population in the lake under control."
No one knows for sure how many of the fish are in the lake, but scientists have calculated that the carp are so plentiful that if all of the fish in the lake were weighed, 90 percent of that mass would be carp, he said.
"A second part of the request is to look for some use for the carp so that we don't waste them or put them into the landfill or something like that," he said. "We would like to find a way to use them."
Hugh Thompson, deputy director of Utah Department of Natural Resources, said the carp are killing the endangered June sucker.
"(The carp) are a nonindigenous species, and they are playing havoc on the ecosystem," he said. "They are predators on young June suckers and on the vegetation, and they are stirring the lake up, keeping it turbid with sediment mixed in water."
Turbid water prevents underwater plants from growing as they should, which in turn decreases vegetation and increases mud, Thompson said. The carp stir up the mud as they forage for food, creating a cycle of disturbance in the lake.
"Overall they are just one hell of a nuisance," he said.
The request for proposals is unusual because scientists working at Utah Lake know of no project that has successfully removed carp from a large body of water, Thompson said.
"I guess if it were an established science we wouldn't be struggling with it as hard as we are," he said. "We need a creative solution."
It was not immediately clear how much funding would be available for carp removal projects, he said, but some funding could be provided to research untested proposals. He hopes to receive proposals ranging from chemical to biological, genetic or mechanical solutions.
"If we are smart enough to put people on the moon and lunar rovers on Mars, somehow we should be able to get rid of the carp out of Utah Lake," he said. "There has got to be a way."
Proposals should potentially get rid of 90 percent of all carp in the lake -- or even all the carp, he said.
"If we could just reduce the number to where they are less of a threat to the ecosystem and the June sucker, that is probably more realistic," he said.
A team of scientists will evaluate all proposals and recommend the most feasible to June Sucker Recovery Implementation program managers, who will decide what proposals receive funding, he said.
For more information on how to submit a proposal, contact Chris Keleher at 226-7147.
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From the Fishing Proclamation, Taking Nongame Species section:
"Lawfully taken nongame fish shall be either released or killed immediately upon removing them from the water; however, they may not be abandoned on the shoreline."
So, basically, the law technically states that you cannot just abandon them on the shore, but the DWR does want to get rid of them in Utah Lake, preferably in a way that is useful for something.
Perhaps you can just cut them wide open so they're bleeding, pop their swim bladder, and toss them back in the water. The letter of the law has been met since they are not left on the shoreline, but you are reducing their numbers. Also, they can now become chow for some of those huge Channel catfish or bullheads (or cut them into pieces so it's easier for the cats to eat them up).
I'm not advocating doing this just saying that it is a possibility. I admit I have done it before, but I usually just let them go. Since I read the article on Sunday, however, I may change my practices. We'll see.
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Could you imagine a clear Utah Lake with a firm bottom?!?!?! How awesome would that be?!?!?! The bass would do great. The trout population could make a comeback....and oh the walleye fishery that would result!!!
I know that there has been talk for years about building a causeway across the lake.....(the plans for Eagle Mountain actually orgianally called for a tunnel through the mountains!....talk about wishful thinking) Someone told me once that if there ever actually was a causeway built that the south end might actually be dreged out in many places to help with lake restoration.
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Well I think we should have a BFT carp thinning party this spring make it a two day event, useing whatever is leagal to use, be it archery or fishing to rid Utah lake of a few carp, I would be willing to donate a dozen custom crested arrows in the winners choice of colors, cut to draw length and for bow weight!!!
for most weight or whatever catagory the BFT members choose. what do you guys think?
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[cool][blue][size 1]Always practice catch and release, even on the lowly carp. [/size][/blue]
[#0000ff][size 1]The fish in the attached picture was handled a bit rough and may not have survived to provide sport to another angler.[/size][/#0000ff]
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LOL I've had a few of those over the years.[angelic]
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I'll take a few off your hands. The smaller ones, under 20". I have a use for them. If you ever get the minnows I'll make it worth your time to keep them.
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I say we keep our eyes and ears open for when their minnows are schooled up and those of us with casting nets go pay them a visit. I hear that carp minnows are awesome bait.
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I have a 10', 1/4" mesh, 2# per ft net I used to throw in Fl. Not sure I even remember how to hold it now, that was a lifetime ago. It's been sitting in my garage for 10 years now, heck the mono is probably rotted out.
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I did not know we could use a cast net in UT.
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Yep....as long as it's not any larger than 10' in diameter. I use a six footer that I picked up for only $25 or so at Bass Pro Shop.
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You find the Carp Minnows I'll remember how to throw it. I think?
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sounds good to me. i need to get out on the big stinky(utah lake) with somebody that knows where to go and how to shoot carp in the water. a little help if you will.
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as soon as the Ice is off and they enter the Shallow water I will get ahold of you and we can go shoot a few. [  ]
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Don't leave them on the ground! Find a good korean or chinees family! They WILL appriciate any carp you give them!
All we need is a couple of good archers, a few people wading with big nets nettin them, and the supplies to be able to coral them carp. Over at Lincoln I've been wondering about maybe putting up a chain link fence in the shallower water. Keeps the carp from getting to the developing plants, makes water clearer for a small space. I'm definately gonna go out there this year and shoot a couple hundred of them(if I can hit[ ]). My good old friend Rodger loves to eat carp. Go figure. So, I'm gonna shoot them, and give them to him whole. They could actually use a few more carp down on the Jordan river where I fish it. Last year, just a little above, the stream was choked with carp. The dam things all moved up stream, or up the canal.
Say, I wonder if the DWR would mind if I started selling them to asian markets around town? All proceeds to go to the Utah lake restoration fund!
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