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Too bad...so sad
#1
Unbelievable!  Don't look for any more blue letters on this forum until they get it right.  Used to be user friendly, with lots of neat functions.  Not now.
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#2
(02-27-2020, 10:35 PM):(TubeDude Wrote: Unbelievable!  Don't look for any more blue letters on this forum until they get it right.  Used to be user friendly, with lots of neat functions.  Not now.
Sad
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#3
It seems they took your blue, and used, and used, and used it.

Didn't they know that was your thing?
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#4
It will be OK we can work through it together,  kinda like waiting for soft water Cry
               O.C.F.D.
[Image: download.jpg]
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#5
(02-27-2020, 10:35 PM)TubeDude Wrote: Unbelievable!  Don't look for any more blue letters on this forum until they get it right.  Used to be user friendly, with lots of neat functions.  Not now.
And you're a "junior member!"
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#6
(02-28-2020, 01:00 AM)Tarponjim Wrote:
(02-27-2020, 10:35 PM)TubeDude Wrote: Unbelievable!  Don't look for any more blue letters on this forum until they get it right.  Used to be user friendly, with lots of neat functions.  Not now.
And you're a "junior member!"
And they took away maroon letters as well.  How rude!  And just in case you hadn't noticed yet, we are ALL junior members.   Heart
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I'm 79 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
"Free men do not ask permission to bear arms."
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#7
(02-28-2020, 01:54 AM)dubob Wrote:
(02-28-2020, 01:00 AM)Tarponjim Wrote:
(02-27-2020, 10:35 PM)TubeDude Wrote: Unbelievable!  Don't look for any more blue letters on this forum until they get it right.  Used to be user friendly, with lots of neat functions.  Not now.

And you're a "junior member!"

And they took away maroon letters as well.  How rude!  And just in case you hadn't noticed yet, we are ALL junior members.   Heart

Yes, it is very annoying that they didn't import at least statistics from the old forum.
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#8
Quote:
Quote:
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Yes, it is very annoying that they didn't import at least statistics from the old forum.

Even before the big changeover they deleted all pictures and files from earlier times...which included almost all of the float tube forum.  When I first started that forum I put in a whole lot of hours building reference files and archives to help newbie float tubers to shorten their learning curve.  Over the years we had many visitors to the forum from all over the world.  And most of them were especially grateful for all the background info I had put together.  And then POOF!  It was all gone without any warning.

Even though I have finally gotten back into the family...as a "Junior"...I continue to be underwhelmed at the "improvements".  Definitely gives a lot of credibility to the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  I know several formerly active members who have written BFT off...for good...or bad.
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#9
True, things are not easier.  Angry
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#10
(03-02-2020, 07:52 PM)TubeDude Wrote:
Quote:And all our PMs are gone. Valuable info to me. Damned near criminal.
Quote: 
Quote: 
Quote:[
  

 



Yes, it is very annoying that they didn't import at least statistics from the old forum. 


Even before the big changeover they deleted all pictures and files from earlier times...which included almost all of the float tube forum.  When I first started that forum I put in a whole lot of hours building reference files and archives to help newbie float tubers to shorten their learning curve.  Over the years we had many visitors to the forum from all over the world.  And most of them were especially grateful for all the background info I had put together.  And then POOF!  It was all gone without any warning.

Even though I have finally gotten back into the family...as a "Junior"...I continue to be underwhelmed at the "improvements".  Definitely gives a lot of credibility to the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  I know several formerly active members who have written BFT off...for good...or bad.
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#11
I just spent 30 min getting back in. Half the stuff I wanted ain't no more
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#12
Quote: 
Quote:...I continue to be underwhelmed at the "improvements".  Definitely gives a lot of credibility to the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  
  


I agree with the Duds feelings that the new site has not impressed.  Yet.
I don't agree with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".  

While outward appearances may have said that the former site was function without problems, that may not have been the case for what was going on inside.  As with any software application, the prevalence of malicious code requires administrators to patch and update software - even when the end-users think "it ain't broke".  At some point, a "major" upgrade is a necessity, to the shagrin of all users.  A necessary evil, it is.


The transition to the new site has come with plenty of problems - that is very well evident.  Multiple logins, security failures (ie:  porn silicitations), poor initial layout, the loss of the treasured floattube forum along with all it's pictures, step-by-step instructions, and loquacious discussions of a sesquipedalian nature concerning all things pvs., etc., all suggest that the upgrade plan was not as well thought out and tested as it could have been....

....nonetheless, here we are having a discussion.  You mentioned that some members have written BFT off for good.  That's unfortunate.  I would dare guess that if they were a valuable asset to the forums, they'll venture their way back eventually.


I have had the wonderful oppportunity to lead a number of projects involving software upgrades.  The largest involved 12 months of work and a bill to the tune of $1,000,000.  I've heard the very same complaints on every single one of those upgrades that I've read concerning BFT's upgrade.  This is natural.  It is expected.  It is normal human nature.  We don't like change.  However, just like in every upgrade project I've taken part in, given time, users will begin to accept the changes as "normal".  The new site will become the new normal.  The sun will once again rise in the east, and set in the west.  We'll all forget our common enemy (the upgraded site) and start focusing our angst in a different direction.  The target will change, and BFT will once again revert to a common place for all of us to partake in infelicitous forms of velitation with one another.
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#13

Quote:I agree with the Duds feelings that the new site has not impressed.


Dud?  Seriously?
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I'm 79 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
"Free men do not ask permission to bear arms."
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#14
Did I misspell it?  TubeDud was who I meant.  Sorry.

Angel
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#15
(03-03-2020, 04:43 PM)PBH Wrote: Did I misspell it?  TubeDud was who I meant.  Sorry.

Angel

At some point, a "major" upgrade is a necessity, to the shagrin of all users.  A necessary evil, it is.

You also misspelled "chagrin".  Probably just an autocorrect error too.  Right?  (Sha-grinning)
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#16
(03-03-2020, 04:47 PM)TubeDude Wrote: You also misspelled "chagrin".  Probably just an autocorrect error too.  Right?  (Sha-grinning)



No.  Autocorrect would have fixed it for me.  Looks like another issue that may need to be resolved on the new forum.  I'm sure I'm like many, and have for too long relied on technology to make me appear smarter than I really am.

(Yikes!!  I just re-read my original reply to the Dud and noticed numerous misspellings and errors!  Sometimes the fingers just take off and start pounding away at the keyboard faster than the brain can keep up!  Goodness!  The new forum needs a patch, or possibly just a check-box checked for autocorrect!)

but, hey -- check it out -- we're discussing stuff.  cool, ain't it?
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#17
(03-03-2020, 02:09 PM)PBH Wrote:
Quote:  
Quote:...I continue to be underwhelmed at the "improvements".  Definitely gives a lot of credibility to the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  

   



I agree with the Duds feelings that the new site has not impressed.  Yet.
I don't agree with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".  

While outward appearances may have said that the former site was function without problems, that may not have been the case for what was going on inside.  As with any software application, the prevalence of malicious code requires administrators to patch and update software - even when the end-users think "it ain't broke".  At some point, a "major" upgrade is a necessity, to the shagrin of all users.  A necessary evil, it is.


The transition to the new site has come with plenty of problems - that is very well evident.  Multiple logins, security failures (ie:  porn silicitations), poor initial layout, the loss of the treasured floattube forum along with all it's pictures, step-by-step instructions, and loquacious discussions of a sesquipedalian nature concerning all things pvs., etc., all suggest that the upgrade plan was not as well thought out and tested as it could have been....

....nonetheless, here we are having a discussion.  You mentioned that some members have written BFT off for good.  That's unfortunate.  I would dare guess that if they were a valuable asset to the forums, they'll venture their way back eventually.


I have had the wonderful oppportunity to lead a number of projects involving software upgrades.  The largest involved 12 months of work and a bill to the tune of $1,000,000.  I've heard the very same complaints on every single one of those upgrades that I've read concerning BFT's upgrade.  This is natural.  It is expected.  It is normal human nature.  We don't like change.  However, just like in every upgrade project I've taken part in, given time, users will begin to accept the changes as "normal".  The new site will become the new normal.  The sun will once again rise in the east, and set in the west.  We'll all forget our common enemy (the upgraded site) and start focusing our angst in a different direction.  The target will change, and BFT will once again revert to a common place for all of us to partake in infelicitous forms of velitation with one another.

I have to disagree on several points here.

Prior to BFT there was another site (can't remember the name of it right now). The moderators and site owners unfortunately were unable to meet the needs of the users. Instead of accepting it, the users migrated over to something better. Hence the rise of the Utah forums on BFT, likely some of the most active BFT forums.
While not perfect, it did a good job. The moderators worked to keep the negative out of the site, and it was a good forum where you could enter timely reports. As an example, look at the occasions where someone was stranded and they were able to quickly post on BFT, where BFT members were able to quickly respond. Other instances where someone was getting skunked on a lake and posted, and BFT members gave timely advice to help. Now, if you post a new thread, you have to wait for someone to approve the thread.
Also, while the site looks a lot cleaner, navigating the forums is just as clunky, if not moreso.
I do understand that sometimes what is running in the background severely needs updating. The old site was very clunky, especially with the ads all over the place. However, any well-executed software upgrade project will keep the needs and wants of the end-user in mind first and foremost. So far I really don't see ANY improvement for the end user experience other than getting rid of all the ads on the sides.
 I disagree on the point that "they'll find their way back eventually". On a forum like this, where this is not the only option, it is likely that many are now gone for good. Unfortunately the usage of the site had been dwindling already due to Facebook fishing groups, etc.. On the same note, I disagree with the point that users will begin to accept the change as the new normal. While that is true with workplace applications where there is no alternative, that is not true for some internet based forum. A well moderated Facebook group may be the answer, and where many from this forum will likely migrate to as they wean themselves off BFT.
One other point completely missed on these changes is the pride people had in the work they put into the old BFT. As Tubedude mentioned, he spent hours of work on the tubing forum, and hours helping people out. You could see that on every one of his posts where it showed how much he had contributed. I hadn't put near the hours into it that he had, but it did show that I had been around for 15+ years with a couple thousand posts. Now we are all branded 'newbies' and junior members, and the statistics don't accurately reflect the number of posts anyone put into the old forums. Right now, you can't easily tell the trolls from the experienced long-term members. If we have to start over, maybe start over somewhere with a much more modern, convenient, and less clunky interface.
The best sign of a truy great software / website update is when the needs of the owner and the end-users are both met to satisfaction, and parties on both ends are happy. I'm afraid this one really failed to meet the end-user needs.
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#18
(03-03-2020, 04:43 PM)PBH Wrote: Did I misspell it?  TubeDud was who I meant.  Sorry.

Angel


Your sarcasm is duly noted.  Why is it that with all your education and background that you use few, if any, social skills on a family oriented fishing website?  Informative discussion is always a delight to see here.  Showing disrespect for other site members in doing so - not so much.  Did it add ANYTHING to your discussion by calling Pat a 'dud'?  Other than show disrespect for him.   Dodgy
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I'm 79 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
"Free men do not ask permission to bear arms."
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#19
(03-03-2020, 05:12 PM)addicted2fishin Wrote: I have to disagree on several points here.




point taken.  I appreciate your comments.

I like the forums.  I find them far better than Facebook groups.  But I can certainly see where many people may be moving towards newer formats.  UtahOnTheFly certainly met its demise, maybe BFT will be next?

One huge improvement that you pointed out is the removal of the advertisements.  That's a great improvement!

Also, after taking a look at the new formatting tool, each user has the ability to enable, or disable, features such as SCAYT (Spell Check As You Type) and auto-save.  Those are nice features.  (Although, after first use, I'm not sure I like how it works)

But I would wager a guess that "nice features" weren't the only goal of the upgrade.  When administrators consider upgrades, sometimes we have to weight the pros and cons of nice features, and end-user wants vs. security, confidentiality, integrity, and availability.  You are correct in your comment of what makes truly great software (meet the needs of all parties involved).  I'm yet to come across a software company willing to follow through with this.  Dang it.


At this point, I think the biggest mistake was your point of losing that content that was in the old site.  That's the real downer.  It makes you wonder about the decision to abandon that data.  Was it due to incompatibility between the old and new?  Was it data-size related?  Was it simply an oversight?  who knows.


What I do know:  we're here.  we're using it.  And we have a "like" button.  'cause "like" buttons are how we'll determine whether a user has credibility.   Undecided

(03-03-2020, 05:32 PM)dubob Wrote:   Why is it that ...you use few, if any, social skills on a family oriented fishing website?  ... Showing disrespect for other site members in doing so ...  Did it add ANYTHING to your discussion by calling Pat a 'dud'?  Other than show disrespect for him.   Dodgy

I apologize for offending you dubob (May I call you Bob?).  My intentions were hardly meant to take away from a family oriented website - even if it was plastered with links to pornographic websites for a few days (grantedly by mistake).

FWIW -- I've been calling TuberDuder a dud for years - and to my knowledge, he's yet to offer any response that suggested he's offended by the nickname.  He's certainly privy to notifying me of the offense, perchance it is offensive.  I would be open to finding a new epithet for Mr. Dude if that would offer some level of inspiritive familial gathering for all.  I appreciate you bringing this nefarious conduct to my attention.

PeanutButter&Honey
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#20
(03-03-2020, 05:33 PM)PBH Wrote:
]






(03-03-2020, 05:32 PM)dubob Wrote: [color=#800000' Wrote:   Why is it that ...you use few, if any, social skills on a family oriented fishing website?  ... Showing disrespect for other site members in doing so ...  Did it add ANYTHING to your discussion by calling Pat a 'dud'?  Other than show disrespect for him.  [/color] Dodgy


I apologize for offending you dubob (May I call you Bob?).  My intentions were hardly meant to take away from a family oriented website - even if it was plastered with links to pornographic websites for a few days (grantedly by mistake).

FWIW -- I've been calling TuberDuder a dud for years - and to my knowledge, he's yet to offer any response that suggested he's offended by the nickname.  He's certainly privy to notifying me of the offense, perchance it is offensive.  I would be open to finding a new epithet for Mr. Dude if that would offer some level of inspiritive familial gathering for all.  I appreciate you bringing this nefarious conduct to my attention.

PeanutButter&Honey

We have had our "differences" over the years, but I would like to think we have progressed (degenerated) to a position of mutual respect.  Your cutesy alteration of my user name bothers me not.  I have been called worse...by better.
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