Pineview Access Dilemma

[dubob]

As most of you are aware, Pineview management (in their infinite wisdom), decided that Pineview parking access is no longer viable during the winter months when the concessionaire (Utah Recreation Company) is absent.  Pineview management has closed and locked all gates to parking lots adjacent to the reservoir effectively denying machine (snowmobile/snowdog) access to the reservoir.  Granted, one can still use a snowdog type machine using the Browning Point Road (N 5900 E in Eden), but hauling it there in a trailer is problematic with little or no room on the road to maneuver/park a trailer at the end of that road.

So, for the most part the only access is foot access and the foot access points can be very steep and treacherous.  This situation isn't going to change without a major input from you - the using public.  If you haven't written a complaint letter to the US Dept of Agriculture (USDA) and/or your Federal Congressional Members, NOW would be a good time to do so.

I am currently going back and forth with the USDA via emails and have posted an email to both Rep Moore & Sen Lee.  I sent the following to the USDA last week:

Looking at https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/uwcnf/abo...rdb5048556, you will see this statement: "Pineview Reservoir is accessible at any time from the Port Ramp Marina on the west shoreline. The gates are not locked at this boat ramp."  That statement is false.  The gates are, in fact, closed and locked during the winter, depriving winter sports enthusiasts (ice fishing, ice skating, ice wind surfing, etc.) access to the property.  In fact, ALL gates to public parking access areas are closed and locked for the winter season.  Also, in the Ogden Ranger District Recreation Update letter dated 11-30-2021 (https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOC...035304.pdf), it states "Port Ramp is open all year, with fees only when occupied (in summer months) when hosts are onsite."  And, again, this is a false statement.  The gate is closed and locked.  Please, I would very much like to know the rational for denying access to Federal public property and why the USDA is allowing false information to be published and presented to the public.  I await your response.

I got a response from the USDA on my inquiry last week.  Here is what they sent me:

Thank you for your inquiry. I have included the following information that may be helpful to address your question.
 
We do apologize if the information mentioned in the provided websites are incorrect and we assure you that we will work on fixing this error. For further assistance with communicating the correct information on the FS' websites, we encourage you to reach out to the FS National Office by calling (800) 832-1355.
 
Please contact the Ask USDA Contact Center if you have any further questions.

Regards,
 
Ask USDA Contact Center Support

I wrote them back and asked for a more substantive answer to my inquiry.  I will also forward their answer to the offices of Representative Blake Moore and Senator Mike Lee along with my disappointment in the USDA answer.   Have you voiced your concerns about this deplorable action to anybody besides your drinking buddies yet?  Hint; hint!  

[Therapist]

Bob, I haven't fished either Pineview or Strawberry for the last 40 years due to the crap that you have to go through on both of them. I have written many letters to our Congressional delegation about the abuse that Utah's have to endure from the USDA on these two waters. Nothing has happened, but we'll try again. Why these waters are not under State control is beyond me ! DWR manages the fishery, but the Feds have control of everything else, ????? Not good !!

[MWScott72]

The locking of gates in the winter is ridiculous. If their excuse is "we can't handle all the garbage that accumulates in the access areas", maybe the solution is to get trash haulers out there more often! I mean, in the neighborhoods it's a weekly thing, and it shouldn't take too much brain power to figure it out. My take is they're just being lazy and that isn't right for a lake that all of us supposedly "own".

I wasn't a fan of the Mitt comment even if I have very much soured on the man in recent years. One thing this access dilema illustrates though is that if Fed lands are transferred into state/private ownership, we'll all see much more of the same. Don't believe it, look around you at the other western states...once they get their hands on land, it's just a matter of time before they either lock out or restrict access or sell them off outright. So, best to innundate our reps and others responsible for PV and get them to wake up. The situation won't improve if we all just bellyache here.

[fishskibum]

the truth hurts dont it
so you edited the ops post to make it less political and deleted mine
real partial moderation
how many pineview acess threads do you need
is a valid question

[dubob]

Okay, boys & girls, I got an answer back from the Ogden office regarding my email to them.  Here is what they said.

Mr. Hicks,
 
Thank you for your questions regarding access to Pineview Reservoir.  Below are the posed questions and the responses as received from the Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest. 
 
Question #1: What is the rational for denying access to a Federal public property (Pineview Reservoir)?
 
There are many access points to Pineview Reservoir during the winter season that are open to the public.  Pelican Beach/Ouist, Spring Creek, Pineview Trailhead/Windsurfer, Old Highway, Browning Point, and Winters Grove are open and accessible.
 
Question #2: Why is USDA allowing false information to be published and presented to the public?
 
We strive to keep our information current on the Forest website.  We will ensure the information related to Pineview recreation sites is updated as conditions change.
 
Question # 3: Does the Ogden Ranger District have the blanket authority to deny access to this property without public input?
 
Ogden Ranger District personnel, under the direction of the District Ranger, have the authority to manage developed recreation sites within the District boundaries.  Port Ramp is one of those sites and is designated a day use site. Federal regulations (36 CFR 261.70 (u)) state that occupancy in a day use site is prohibited between the hours of 10pm and 6 am., therefore Port Ramp is only open during the designated hours. The gate allows the district to better enforce the regulation. 
 
Pineview recreation sites are not maintained during the winter season.  Maintenance is suspended each year approximately the end of October.  The Forest Service is working with partners to improve recreation opportunities around Pineview Reservoir.  These improvements will provide year-round for access to the reservoir.

I did a little more research to check out their list of access points and responded back with the following rebuttal.

Thank you for your response.

I took a closer look at all the access points you listed and found your analysis of their suitability to be flawed.

Pelican Beach/Ouist: Not plowed in winter.  No suitable parking for vehicles with trailers.  Steep bank unsuitable for access on snowmobiles/UTVs.  3-mile plus walk one-way to the Narrows pulling ice fishing gear (50 to 100 lbs) in a sled.

Spring Creek: Not plowed in winter.  No suitable parking for vehicles with trailers.  Steep bank unsuitable for access on snowmobiles/UTVs.  3-mile plus walk one-way to the Narrows pulling ice fishing gear (50 to 100 lbs) in a sled.

Pineview Trailhead/Windsurfer: No suitable parking for vehicles with trailers.  Steep bank unsuitable for access on snowmobiles/UTVs.  Is this lot plowed in the winter?

Old Highway: No such designation shown on Google maps or maps available through USDA websites that I can find unless you are referring to North Arm.  No suitable parking for vehicles with trailers.  Terrain from this lot to the reservoir isn’t conducive to foot or machine traffic such as snowmobiles/UTVs.  3-mile plus walk one-way to the Narrows pulling ice fishing gear (50 to 100 lbs) in a sled.

Browning Point: No suitable parking for vehicles with trailers.  Concrete barriers block all access except foot traffic.  2-mile walk one-way to the Narrows pulling ice fishing gear (50 to 100 lbs) in a sled.

Winters Grove: No suitable parking for vehicles with trailers and Huntsville doesn’t generally allow parking on city streets.  Terrain from this lot to the reservoir isn’t conducive to foot or machine traffic such as snowmobiles/UTVs.  3-mile plus walk one-way to the Narrows pulling ice fishing gear (50 to 100 lbs) in a sled.

In the past, there has only been two viable machine access points for ice fishing; Cemetery Point and Port Ramp.  Your management decision to close these two access points has left only two real access points for walk-on ice fishing: Windsurfer Beach and Browning Point.  To state that the other 4 access points you listed are viable access points for ice fishing says that you have never ice fished Pineview on foot or have never ice fished period.  Either way, you don’t understand the hazards and/or difficulty of using any of those 4 sites to gain access to Pineview for ice fishing.

Your management decision to close Cemetery Point and Port Ramp, however well intended, is short sighted and creates a serious breach of the USFS Mission Statement: “Is to sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of the nation’s forests and grasslands to meet the needs of present and future generations.”  You definitely are not meeting the needs of the present generation with regard to recreational opportunities on Pineview Reservoir – IMHO.

My goal with this ‘pot stirring’ is to get your office to rethink your decision to close off the only viable machine access points to Pineview and deny access to hundreds of ice fishing enthusiasts who require machine access to use the public properties the Federal Government has set aside for such usage.  It appears to the general public that Pineview Reservoir is being managed for the convenience of the Government employees assigned the responsibility of managing the property instead of for the benefit of the general public who uses it.  And, again, this is just my humble opinion.

I do see that the incorrect information about gate closures has been corrected.  Thank you for that.

In your answer to Question #3, you state that the Port Ramp is a day-use only site.  It’s my understanding that the Cemetery Point area is also a day-use only site.  So why are they both being locked up 24/7?  If the problem is vandalism, then secure the vandalized facilities with vandal proof hardware.  If garbage/trash is a major problem, then secure better collection services.  Do either the Port Ramp or Cemetery Point have day-use fee collection stations?  If not, why not?

[Anglinarcher]

Good emails, will follow up.

[MWScott72]

Way to hold them accountable Bob! Hopefully more people (myself included) will get off their duffs and do some "pot stirring" too. Can u post the NF/Ranger district contact info for the rest of us?

[Cowboypirate]

Good morning BFT. Let me introduce myself. I am the Cowboypirate - also one of the moderators. Ya, not sure what I was drinking the day I told Curt I would do that

Anywho, I want to apologize to the members. I committed to do the job, despite my ignorance of what it entails and had the time to do it when I made that commitment. But, life is never static, and personal matters have kept me, of recent, from being able to fully execute those duties. Hopefully things will ease up soon.

That said I was asked to review this thread and some moderator actions that were taken. I can only offer the following, for better or worse...

1- this thread, started by Bob is an appropriate conversation for our forum

2- its perfectly fine for other members to not appreciate or like the thread and to express that in comments to the post

3- spirited conversation is not only ok , but worthwhile as we explore a difficult subject

4- political jabs break the rules and may be moderated

5- personal jabs will ALWAYS be moderated

6 - we will likely, sooner or later, offend everyone in the process of trying to do the moderator job ( well maybe not my dog) - give it a try if you would like to, we could use the help.

It seems the point of the thread has been made and anyone wishing to pursue further action on the matter can do so with the info Bob supplied so I will close the thread

Time to go fishing.