Thread number 10000 - I couldn't help it. But, on topic, KAYAKS...

[Bloodhound]

Good morning fisher folk !

Quick question here:

Does anyone have any experience with fishing from a kayak ?

I have been looking at them for a while - becuase of my facination with all things fishing and the possiblity that a kayak may provide yet another method of getting to the fish.

Thank you in advance.
[signature]

[Red-head]

My father-in-law yaks it all the time now. Its easier for him to "launch and load" than his 12 ft aluminum boat. He is big at going for the kitties at Lincoln beach or Mill Hollow for the troutskies. All you BFTers keep an eye on him for me. He usually goes out alone. He's in a red kayak, and is always just soaking a worm so he can kick back and read. He'll also talk your ear off given a chance.

Its not a bad way to go, but I prefer a pontoon. You can stretch and change positions a little more. Getting in and out is much easier as well. I also assume the toon would be easier to trick out for excess gear.
[signature]

[Bloodhound]

Thanx !

I have a pontoon boat that I have tricked out a "little" and I love to fish from it - I am not looking to replace it with a Kayak. I am inquiring about a Kayak because I talked with someone that was using one last year at Causey while I was shore fishing with friends. It looked like he could cover a greater distance with less effort and it was very manueverable in tight quarters(my seven foot pontoon oars make my 'toon a little unwieldy in some places).

I wanted to find out from anyone that has used both a Kayak and a pontoon boat(and has real life experience with them) to find out if that was the case and/or if the benefits/advantages were worth the cost(new about $300-$500 for the cheapos). I have seen some that are very light(38-50 lbs) and (alledgedly)stable, and that would fit in my truck quite easily.

Also, I am hoping someone here can explain the plus and minus aspects of the Sit-in type versus the Sit-on type as well. Any recomendations as to size of Kayak - or what are the factors to be considered for determining dimensions of same ? It would be mostly for fishing small still waters or maybe even some very light river action(no serious white water or rapids above class II).

Thanx again for any assistance.
[signature]

[Red-head]

As far as manuverability, you can't beat the kayak. You can spin on a dime. I've gone a long way on it, longer than I would have wanted to row a toon. My kids love to use it as well. My 8 and 10 year olds thinks its better than sliced bread. Since I let them on it you can concider it to be pretty stable. I've not tipped it, Dad hasn't tipped it, nor have my kids. Dad's are the cheap yaks, I think he spent $400 or so. I've fished off it as well as a couple of toons. My preference is still the toon. Its also much easier to cast a flyrod off the toon (my own opinion).

As far as the sit-on vs the sit-in yaks, I've only ever been on one sit on type. That was on a trip in the ocean. I got to paddle around a bunch of sealions. Lots of fun! I was amazed that it was as stable as it was. The only drawback that I could imagine between the two would be storage.

Dad has two yaks, and they are both about 7-8 foot. I'll measure next time I go with him. I couldn't tell much difference between the two as far as stability or tracking. Which reminds me, if your dragging/trolling its much easier to track straight if your going backwards. Its kind of tought to track straight if your going forward.

Getting in and out of a kayak is a pain as well. That is the only place that I feel unstable. You want a nice dock or a large rock to hold on to.
[signature]

[FlyingFish]

Ive never fished from a kayak but Ive done plenty from a canoe. By yourself ot with a guest or two they are pretty versitile. My biggest drawback is that it is sometimes hard to load/unload from a vehicle by yourself.
[signature]

[Kayote]

Did someone say Kayak?. Well, it's about time. I love my kayaks. It is a fantastic way to fish. You want to get a sit on top for fishing. Sit in yaks can't hold any gear. I have the 12.5 foot Malibu Pro Explorers. It's a good freshwater yak. This year I'll be moving up to a Ocean Kayak Prowler at 15.5 feet. This yak is longer and narrower and is better for the very long distance ocean fishing excursions I like. I was five miles off the Cal coast last summer trolling for yellowtail and such. Warning, you will become addicted to yak fishing. As far as the comments about not holding enough gear or rigging, they couldn't be farther from the truth. I can actually get inside the hatch of my yak. I put eight foot ocean rods in the hatch to keep them dry for surf launches. My yaks have two flushmount rod holders behind the seat and a Scotty up front. I have a live bait tank for the ocean and will be rigging my new one with a Garmin 240 finder. I can carry six ocean rods, gaff, boga, tackle, water, food, safety gear and still pack over a hundred pounds of fish. My bros in San Diego catch thresher sharks up to 150 pounds and bring them in on top of their yaks. Yaks can easily cover many miles in a day with very little effort, unlike tubes and toons. The sport of yakfishing is probably a lot more advanced than you realize. They are also an extremely safe fishing platform. Some models like the Cobra Fish and Dive, you can stand up in and cast. I hooked a bat ray last summer with about a six foot wing span that towed me around for an hour. They call it a sleigh ride (or slay ride if you prefer). As far as safety, I would rather be in my yak during big whitecaps than any boat, tube or toon. You can't sink them and if it's really bad, waves can just break over the top and the water just drains through the scuppers. As far as being hard to get into, all you have to do is sit down. If sitting is tough for you, well maybe you should be home watching Orlando on the TV (hehe). It's hard to describe the experience. I have a very nice power boat that I'm selling now because I'd rather yakfish. I took Tincan out one time two years ago and he went right out and bought a yak and wants another. My son has been paddling his own since he was 11 and prefers it to boat fishing. Yes, a toon is probably a little better for sitting in one spot and casting, but a yak will cover more distance, carry more gear and is ideal for trolling, driftfishing, ocean fishing and is probably a bit safer (IMHO). Here's a couple pics to spark your blood. Later

Good Yakfishing, Kayote
[signature]

[Bloodhound]

Yes ! Dude, you da man an' [#ff0000]stuff[/#ff0000] ! Great photos ! Great fish !

OK, now the questions.

Size - what's the shortest yak I can get away with and still have some kind of stability and tracking ?

I am more interested in manuevering than distance. I may do some long excursions at some point in the future, but, for the present, I would be focusing on shallow or hard to reach places that may require manuevering. I will have to paddle to those places so I want something that might be easy to negotiate close quarters or navigate some shallow shorelines as well as be easy enough to paddle the distance to get there.

I have rafted with some Kayakers(they don't fish) and seen them do class 3 and 4 rapids(looks like lots of fun), but, I don't have the skills myself yet. Obviously it would be a good thing to acquire some, but for just fishing on small lakes, how much would I need to do in advance ? If you are in SLC or nearby, do you know of a good place to take one to practice - so I don't loose all of my tackle on the first day ?

I am mostly interested in the fishing advantage I have conjured up in my mind, however, I also think that once I try it, I might find other excuses to use it for fishing as well.

So, what would be your ideas as to length and width ?

I looked at a few websites with fishing kayaks earlier today, are you familiar with any of those on the market ?

Thank you again !
[signature]

[Kayote]

I am very familiar with all the SOT models. For what you want, I would go with a 12.5 foot yak. I would look at the Ocean Kayak, Malibu and possiby Wilderness Systems Tarpon series. Don't worry about your paddling skills unless you are going to the ocean. They are not like learning to paddle a sit inside yak. Make sure you use rod and equipment leashes when you first start or you WILL lose rods if you flip. I have taken mine on the daily run at Split Mountain, but SOTs are not really whitewater yaks. That is more of a sit in yak situation. They do go through the surf well though. If buying new, I would really suggest the Malibu X-Factor. It's the hottest thing out there in a 12 foot class fishing yak. Second choice would be a Prowler 13 from Ocean Kayak. After that, possibly a Malibu Pro Explorer or OK Caper. But there are a lot of good ones. If you have the money, check out the Hobie Outback. It's the one that you can peddle. Look for a used Yak first. You can get some very good deals. I've got to go now, but I'll try to send you some links in the morning that should be helpful. You WILL love this sport, trust me.

Good Fishing, Kayote
[signature]

[Bloodhound]

Kayote - Thanx for the info ! I spent some time last night looking at Malibu, Cobra, OK, Heritage and a few others. there sure are lot's of options just like you mentioned ! There's some pretty spendy stuff too. I would probably look into a used one first when I am ready.

More questions:

Are you a fly fisherman as well ? If so, what is flycasting like from a kayak ? I have done it in a canoe before and that was Ok.

Just what is meant by "longer is faster" in the kayak terminology. How much faster is faster ? Are we talking night and day - like the difference between a float tube and a pontoon boat ? Or, is it just a matter of degree like in racing - you know something on the order of a tenth of a second over the distance of a mile race ? Would those differences mentioned on the websites matter to someone not pushing the envelope ? Would a nephyte like myself even notice ? Is it really important given the nature of the application of fishing ?

Does the width of the kayak make a lot of difference in stability and paddling ? Is there a point of diminishing returns with the ratio of length vs. width and performance ?

When you were first getting involved with kayaks, what was your experience with a learning curve as far as capsizing or flipping ? Did you get wet alot at first ?

Do you need to wear a wet suit when it's cold or just chilly ? Or, now that you no longer have the concern of flipping because of your expertise, do wear your waders ? Currently on my pontoon(and often my tube) i do not have to wear waders or anything special - I just dress for success according to the weather - but then I am not right in the water with those(except occasionally my feet) and my oars do not drip on me.

Thank you again for all the info.
[signature]

[Bloodhound]

TubeDude.

OOOOPSIE !

[size 1]"Yes ! Dude, you da man an' [#ff0000]stuff[/#ff0000] ! Great photos ! Great fish !" < edited>[/size]
[size 1][/size]
[size 1]Rut Roh ! Sorry about that - it just kind of slipped out. I will try to be more careful in the future with that. I wasn't thinking or paying any particular attention ! Appologies extended ![/size]
[size 1][/size]
[size 1]Thanx ![/size]
[size 1][/size]
[size 1]Bloodhound[/size]
[size 1](no one on the planet has ever accused a bloodhound of being terribly clever, too overly politcally correct, or being aware of anything beyond their olfactory sensory receptors) - but generally they have great dispositions and can get along. [/size]
[signature]

[Kayote]

Flyfishing- Flyfishing from the yak is about like a canoe. It's not ideal because it's always tough when sitting. If that is your primary objective I suggest getting a Cobra Fish and Dive. you can stand up in it. It's 12.5 feet by 36 inches wide. Not the best for paddling, but probably the most stable and dry ride out there.

Longer = Faster- Length and width make a huge difference in speed. Longer = faster and narrower = faster. Don't think of it just as speed though. Think of it as paddling efficiency. You will paddle farther and longer with less effort in a longer narrower yak. This is extremely important if your five miles offshore and a Santa Ana wind comes up. I started on a OK Scupper Pro TW. It's 15 feet long by 23 inches wide. I found this too narrow. This yak is referred to as the 'Flipper Pro'. I was very freaked out being a mile offshore and falling into the kelp (no gusta). Mine are 12.5 ft by 31 inches. Great for small to medium lakes. Bad on Strawberry, Powell or the Gorge. The Prowler is 15 ft plus and 28 inches wide. The Malibu Extreme is very popular offshore and it's 15 ft plus by 31 inches wide. Amazingly, it's a lot more efficient than the Pro Explorers. You also must consider the 'dryness' of the ride. OK yaks are a notoriously wet ride. ie You are sitting in water all day. This is acceptable in the ocean where you're usually wet anyway. It's not cool in freshwater. Malibu and Cobras tend to have very dry rides. FYI, I recommend you get a high back seat for comfort. I have spent up to twelve hours at a time yakfishing and a bad seat will hurt at the end of the day. Summary: length is VERY important depending on your application.

Flipping- I was at home in my Malibus after the first hour. I wasn't comfortable in the SPTW until quite a few trips later. I've never flipped the Malibu's. The Prowlers also feel very stable immediately. Bottomline, everyone has a different feel for yaks and the one you buy is a very personnal choice. I had an advantage because I go to San Diego every year and they have a lot of yak shops. they let you test paddle for free and that is ideal for making the right choice. Not sure if Utah dealers will do that for you.

Clothing- In the ocean if it's cold/cool I wear a wetsuit. I use a Hydroskin (.5 mil wetsuit) in a Farmer John style. I also have wetsuit shorts and a paddle jacket if it's in between. I also have a fleece sweatshirt for added warmth. I get my stuff from NRS. They have great close out sales this time of year. Check out NRS.com. If it's warm, I wear shorts and a Tshirt. In fresh water I wear Gortex waders unless it's warm. I always wear a life vest offshore and keep one handy in fresh.

This kind of turned into a TubeDude length response. Sorry (hehehe). Hope this helps. Later

Good Yakfishing, Kayote
[signature]

[Bloodhound]

Kayote, Thank you again !

You have given me some great info ! I hope I am not badgering you with all of this interogating. But, I kind of like to look into things before I move on them - it's easier up front to plan than to recover or adjust.

What are your specific impressions of the Malibu extreme and the Cobra Fish'N'Dive as far as efficiency and stability in rougher waters with or without a wind and how would they both compare in a river environment ?

What local waters have you been on and which Kayak did you have ?

I know you prefer SOT but have you had much experience with SIT ? From your input and what I have read, I am pretty sure I would go with an SOT - it just seems to make more sense. But I am curious nevertheless about any comments you may have on the others.

Thank you again for all of your help.
[signature]

[Kayote]

Malibu Extreme is very stable, wind or not. It is far too long for a river boat. This is an offshore big water boat. Overkill for small lakes.

Cobra Fish and Dive is probably the most stable yak out there. It also acts like a sail in a high wind as it sits very high. Not a good feature. Would be OK in a river I suppose, but there are better choices for that specific application. Check out the OK Caper. 11 feet long by 31 inches wide.

I have been on dozens of waters statewide. Far too many to remember and list all of them. I live in the Basin, so for sure I have hit most of the NE Utah lakes.

I do like to paddle SIT yaks, but they are not a practical fishing platform. ie no storage, tippy and more dangerous. With a SIT you better learn how to do an eskimo roll. Myself, I dont want to be strapped into anything underwater. The alternative is to bail out, in which case the spray skirt comes off and your kayak will swamp and possibly sink. It is also VERY difficult to reboard (self rescue) a SIT yak offshore. They are great if you just want to cruise or for white water applications. If you want to seriously fish, DO NOT get a SIT yak. Trust me on this one.

Good Fishing, Kayote
[signature]

[PBH]

There is a local guy from Santaquin, UT that is selling a Stearns IK-128 inflatable kayak:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...eName=WDVW

you could probably get the shipping cost eliminated if you got with him....
[signature]

[Kayote]

I would stay away from inflatables. They don't track at all, blow around like a beachball in the wind and you can't attach rod holders, fishfinders, livewells, leashes and all the things that make yakfishing what it is. Just my dos centavos.

Here is the closest Ocean Kayak Dealer:

[size 3][#000066]CANYON SPORTS LTD.
[/#000066][/size][#000066]705 W RIVERDALE ROAD
OGDEN, UT 84405 [/#000066]
[#000066]Tel: 801-621-4662[/#000066]

Here are the nearest Cobra Dealers:

Name [#0ffff0][url "http://www.xtremelocator.com/visitor/viewLocation.php?lid=651370"]All That Stuff In The Barn[/url][/#0ffff0] Address [#0ffff0]128 W. 100 North
Midway, UT 84049 [/#0ffff0]Phone [#0ffff0]435-654-5889[/#0ffff0]

Name [#0ffff0][url "http://www.xtremelocator.com/visitor/viewLocation.php?lid=651410"]SBR Sports[/url][/#0ffff0] Address [#0ffff0]514 South State Street
Orem, UT 84058 [/#0ffff0]Phone [#0ffff0]801-225-0076[/#0ffff0]

Sorry about the blue font, just the way it copied from the website.

The nearest Malibu Dealer is IN Malibu (bummer)


Good Yakfishing, Kayote
[signature]

[Spades]

Inflatables aren't as bad as everyone seems to think.

Mine tracks excellent for it's short length, doesn't blow around unless there is a gale, I can attach rod holders and things as well as anyone with a floattube can although rigid kayaks do have that part easier.

Inflatables are excellent for Utah's lakes and rivers so don't count them out. Their main benefits are portability and price. If you have the money and someway to move it around easily, a rigid kayak would be your best bet though. If you don't, don't give up on inflatables. I mean, that's what toons and tubes are and they are excellent fishing tools.
[signature]