Posts: 472
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2005
Reputation:
0
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I need some help here. I have been a member of a quality stillwater rainbow trout fishery for 3 years now. One of the reasons I selected this venue is that float-tubing is encouraged. (At least by the management; the dry fly purists usually grumble something like, "The only ones catching fish are those guys in the tubes.") That's the good news. The not so good news is that I have never missed so many strikes in my life. If I landed every fish that hit my flies I'd be dangerous and the dry fly guys would "burn me in effigy."
Especially on days when the fishing is a little tough the fish seem to be nipping the marabou tails or whatever I've got hanging off the rear of the hook. So, okay lets go to mini buggers and damsels and stuff tied on #10 hooks, thinking that the fish will engulf the whole thing and end up hooked. This works sometimes but believe it or not they sometimes hit these smaller flies so hard that they break me off. (Even on 8 pound tippet.)
I have caught 2 double digit rainbows in these ponds this year so I know there are fish capable of breaking that kind of tippet. Any of you ever experience this? This is basically since I started tubing for trout but it happens as much on cast and retrieve as it does with the slow troll or drift.
God Bless,
Don
[signature]
Posts: 19,235
Threads: 2
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation:
1
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]I think we all have experience this. Try: Trimming the tail, strip faster, put a small dropper on. I would try bigger flies a little faster and see if you can stir them up a little.[/size][/black][/font]
[signature]
Posts: 962
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation:
0
Don,
Are you sure it's trout and not some other kind of fish? I was fishing a pond awhile back and getting light hits for a good portion of two hours. I finally managed to connect, only to find myself attached to a nice sized bluegill. My fly was too big for his mouth. I thought it was trout.
Beyond that the small fly dropper has worked for me before and the quicker retrieve that FG recommended might help. (You'd think slower would be better but what you might need is a reaction strike, not a nip)
[cool][cool]Must be tough having to battle those double digit fish and, on top of that, listen to the growns of those jealous dry fly purists. Glad you're willing 'cause I know somebody has to do it.
z~
[signature]
Posts: 472
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2005
Reputation:
0
No Bluegills in the ponds so these are definitely trout hitting the fly. I was considering the small dropper and now that you guys have recommended it I am definitely going to give it a go.
I'm curious about this......... When I troll I have the rod straight out between the pontoons on my tube. I give the line a few jerks here and there. When a fish strikes it's pretty much like regular flyfishing with direct line connection to the fish. In my gear days we always trolled with our rods out the side. In this way the rod was involved in the hookset. I wondered if this would make any difference. How do you guys troll from your tubes?
God Bless,
Don
[signature]
Posts: 19,235
Threads: 2
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation:
1
I prefer to keep the tip out of the water and up a little as you say, let the rod tip set the hook.
I retrieve with the quick jerk, jerk - rest long strip then repeat. Sometimes fast, sometimes slow.
[signature]
Posts: 962
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation:
0
I've never tried anything but straight out the back, pointing the rod tip in the direction of the line. I do the twitch thing, too. Seems like I remember Skip Morris mentioning holding the rod out the side in his and Brian Chan's lake fishing book. A guy could just try it and see.
One thing I find is that sometimes I will have a strike while making a turn. Presumably the fly sinks down a little farther, then speeds up again once things straighten out. That might be a technique that could be mimicked by slowing down and speeding up. I only troll when nothing else works - or I'm just exploring a lake. Its a great method because it keeps the fly in the water, not in the air. But I really like to cast.
z~
[signature]
Posts: 472
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2005
Reputation:
0
Dave,
I often make turns on purpose because fish do tend to hit as you're turning in the tube.
Have you had a chance to try those techniques we discussed a while back? Both of those large trout were hooked on unconventional presentations.
I picked up a rotary tool on sale and am going to try sharpening my hooks with it as my friend does. Check out some of my recent efforts.
[inline "Dremel BugsBFT.jpg"]
Don
[signature]
Posts: 962
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation:
0
[blush][blush]Chucked my cookies again. Now I'm logged in.
z~
(You can snicker now, TD.)
[signature]
Posts: 35,742
Threads: 261
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
48
[cool][#0000ff]I shall maintain my ascendancy by refraining from saying anything derogatory. I refuse to make any snide remarks about age and forgetfulness, or about anyone being "computer challenged". I would not think to impugn the reputation or the respect of so great a member as Uncle Z.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#bf0000]BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAA![/#bf0000]
[signature]
Posts: 962
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation:
0
[cool]You are a marvel of self restraint.
z~
[signature]
Posts: 472
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2005
Reputation:
0
Tube,
As a very experienced tuber what is your 2 cents on the missed strikes while cruising in a float tube with flyrod in hand?
[signature]
Posts: 19,235
Threads: 2
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation:
1
Hi guys, it is a proven fact the doing "S" shapes with your boat or tube will produce fish because of the tight/relax or up down movement plus you are cover two different levels of depth. Knowing that fish only look up for food this puts it at eye level for several "ZONES".
For those fly fishing people, even lifting the tip of your rod at times will do the same effect.
I have found, however, with my rod to the side (stillwater or rivers "like under bridges") that it is harder to set the hook, specially with a slower/softer action rod.
[signature]
Posts: 35,742
Threads: 261
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
48
[cool][#0000ff]I kind of avoided jumping in on this one because there are so many variables. It is hard to offer a generalized answer based upon a brief description of a single species on a single water...when I was not there to make my own observations. And, that is a key to coming up with any definitive answer...proper perception and accurate evaluation.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]That being said, I will have to admit that I have had more than my share of experiences when the fish were "acting funny". We all love it when we make the perfect cast, strip the line in just right and we are rewarded with a solid take and a perfect hookup. Makes ya grin a lot. But, fish don't always act like we would like them to.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]There have been some good observations and suggestions already offered. To what has been posted so far, I would like to make a generalization. That is that fish strike according to "triggers". Those triggers can be affected by water temp and clarity, light conditions, most common food source and just the overall "mode" of the fish...active, inactive or neutral.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Triggers can be in the form of sight, smell, action, size, color patterns, etc. Sometimes the fish key in on specific sizes, colors and actions...based upon their current preferred food source. Other times something purely "representational" will get the job done. "Match the hatch" vs "close enough". This is often the case with flies...something about the same size, shape and color will catch non-descriminating fish. Other days, unless you are smack spang on, you don't get more than an occasional looksee from the fish.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]All of this affects how the fish whack your lure or fly. When they are actively feeding, and your offering is "close enough", you have a better chance of getting a solid take. If the fish are in a neutral or negative mode, you have to use a fly or lure...fished the right way...to induce a "reaction bite". It can be like teasing a cat with a string. They aren't really in a feeding mode, but will take a whack at something attractive even though they don't open their mouths all the way and gulp it down. Sometimes they only nip at the tail end. Other times they may do nothing more than bump it with their noses and do not even open their mouths.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I have a whole series of ploys and tactics I institute when the fish are there and playing hard to get...or striking short. First is varying the speed of the retrieve. Sometimes they want a slower retrieve, or will smack it while it is sinking slowly after a complete stop. Other times they want a faster retrieve, to trigger the predatory instinct...hammer it before it gets away. On still other occasions they want an erratic retrieve...stop, start, stop, wiggle, lift, drop or whatever. Once you try something and get a solid take, keep doing it until you prove that it was a fluke.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I have watched programs that show how fish take trolled flies and lures, from an underwater camera mounted on a downrigger. It is amazing how many times a fish will follow the fly or lure for a long ways, without ever hitting it. It's also amazing how sometimes when an S turn, a sudden stop or drop back or a quick speedup will trigger a striking response. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Once I started fishing flies for bluegill, I became a better fly fisherman for trout. An old timer showed me how to point the rod directly at the fly and to strip the line in while maintaining complete "touch". Bluegill are notorious for coming up behind a fly, sucking it in and spitting it out without the angler ever knowing they were there. If you become attuned to detecting any change in "the force", you just give a little extra pull on the line hand. If there is resistance, then make a lift with the rod hand to set the hook and join the battle. If you do not feel the fish with the line hand, speed up the stripping to get the fish to hit again...harder. That works with trout too.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]There are a million other variables to employ when the fish are finicky and hitting short. Clipping the tail is one often-effective tactic. Going to a smaller (or slightly larger) size is another. Sometimes tieing on something more visible and brighter colored will trigger more reaction bites. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I like to troll flies from my tube, especially when using a full sinker to dredge the depths. Keeps the flies down in the "zone" better and saves a lot of wear and tear on the old casting arm. But, I seldom just drag the flies along waiting for a stupid fish to hang itself. I am constantly doing something to try to add some enticement. Wiggling the rod tip can help. So can stopping once in awhile and doing a "shivver lift"...raising the rod tip while wiggling the rod. This imitates many forms of aquatic insects or other invertebrates that act that way when they head up off the bottom.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Missed strikes. If it becomes common, I adopt the advice from another old teacher. Don't try to set the hook on every bump. Just keep the fly or lure coming, at the same speed or slightly faster. Often you will get a series of several bumps before you feel weight. That is the time to set the hook.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]If none of this works, welcome to fishing. Whenever you begin to think you have the fish all figured out, they will find a way to humble you.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Is that enough words? At least 2 cents worth?[/#0000ff]
[signature]
Posts: 962
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation:
0
Don,
Check your PMs.
z~
[signature]
Posts: 472
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2005
Reputation:
0
Thanks Tube,
A lot of what you said restored my confidence as to whether I was doing something wrong. I will say this "missed strike" phenomenon occurs most often when the fish are in a neutral or negative mood. When you do get a strike under those circumstances it's pretty frustrating not to hook up.
Your input is much appreciated and up here in Canada we have a two dollar coin (The "Toonie") Your dissertation would be worthy of a handful of those.
Thanks,
Don
P.S. I'm coming to Rhode Island in a couple of weeks to do some serious bluegill flyfishing on a private lake. I will make sure I "go to school" on the gills. By the way on that trip last year I loaned my buddy my Fat Cat while I finned around in the Glide Rider. He bought a Fish Cat 4 late last summer and has been fishing from a tube ever since.
[signature]
Posts: 35,742
Threads: 261
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
48
[cool][#0000ff]Thanks. Hope it helps.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]One thing I meant to address, but forgot, was the flip side of the coin/rod. What about when the fish are slamming your flies and you are popping them off? If you have the rod pointed directly at the fish, and the fish "grab and go", you have a better/worser chance of breaking off. On the other hand, if you have the rod out to the side, the rod will act as a shock absorber and you will have fewer breakoffs. Let your rod and your drag save you from yourself.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Good luck with the bluegills. Try that "direct connect" techique, and sandpaper your fingertips for extra sensitivity (like safe crackers do). If you really focus and concentrate you will be amazed at how many times you pull back and find a fish when you would have never noticed it otherwise. Bluegills can be as tough as any fish there is to hook, and they definitely fight hard for their size. Great flyrod fare.[/#0000ff]
[signature]
Posts: 962
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation:
0
[reply]
[#0000ff]If you really focus and concentrate you will be amazed at how many times you pull back and find a fish when you would have never noticed it otherwise. [/#0000ff] [/reply]
That's what river trout fly fishers call the nymph fisherman's "sixth sense." Its the ability to sense the thoughts of a fish just before he decides to take so as to sit the hook the exact moment he takes it. In the past I had a friend who had this gift. He fished over 200 days a year. His rod was an extension of his lightning fast mind.
Me, I just tie on a large strike indicator (bobber).
z~
[signature]
Posts: 35,742
Threads: 261
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
48
[cool][#0000ff]That's okay, Z, using a strike indicator is both legal and moral. My only suggestion is to complete your rig by tieing on a fly at the end too. Works much better.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I know what you mean about some guys seeming to have that magic "sixth sense". I sometimes think I am a pretty good "touch" fisherman, but I have fished with a couple of guys who catch fish when there ain't any...if you know what I mean. Of course, we have probably both fished with guys who couldn't hook a fish if someone else held the fish on the line for them to set the hook. I have had "fishin' buddies" who really got agitated by my catching more fish than they did, and when I watched their line or strike indicators I saw that they were getting plenty of "inquiries"...just not inviting the fish to play.[/#0000ff]
[signature]
Posts: 962
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation:
0
[reply]
[cool][#0000ff] My only suggestion is to complete your rig by tieing on a fly at the end too. Works much better.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[/reply]
As I'm sure you know, there are times when fish take a liking to a bright colored indicator and come up and smash it hard. At such times all you would need to do is add a hook to the indicator. No fly required. My favorite times for such things happening is in the midst of a fly hatch where absolute match the hatch is the only thing that works, until some goofy fish decides to whallup your bobber. Turns "exact imitation" theories on their ear.
z~
[signature]
Posts: 194
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2005
Reputation:
0
I think there are to many variables to the question. From experience, if you use a fast sinking line and you have most of it out, say 70' to 90', it takes a few (what seems like anyway) seconds from the strike to follow the line up to your rod and hand. Your reaction time is ssslllloooowww compared to the fishes. The sag in the line and you pulling the line in or raising your tip only will pull up on the sag. Even with density compensated lines you'll have a little line sag. Anticipate the strike. Daydreaming will rob you of fish.
Another like Joni says is short strikes. Too long of a tail, in which case cut it shorter.
I've read somewhere to strip your line in toward you when you feel a hit. Not raise the tip. That way you'll keep your fly in the zone still. I've adapted it and it's hard to break away from the muscle memory of raising your tip up at every strike.
Also how fast you strip and if you do it erratic or rythmically. Sometimes a fast retrive is the ticket for hooking the buggers.
One more thing. Make sure your hooks are sharp.
EA
[signature]
|
