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[font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3]I have several dozen spools of mercerized cotton sewing thread. Size 50. Can these be used to tie flies? Or for that matter polyester thread?[/size][/green][/font]
[font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3]Here is a definition of the thread:[/size][/green][/font]
COTTON: A medium thickness (size 50) is available in a wide range of colors, and is used for sewing on light and medium weight cottons, rayons and linens. Cotton thread is usually mercerized, a finishing process that makes it smooth and lustrous, also helping it to take dye better. The lack of "give" in cotton thread makes it an unwise choice for knits or other stretchy fabrics, as the stitches will tend to pop.
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I don't know what the number means relative other sewing threads I have used but:
Use the thread for thread bodies such as the famous "Yong Special"
[url "http://shop.flyfishing.about.com/fly_archive/details/1291.htm"]http://shop.flyfishing.about.com/fly_archive/details/1291.htm[/url]
Sewing threads can be use as ribbing for flys such as the 20 incher pattern. you can do a search on 20 incher fly and you probably will come up with a site that recipe for it.
dB
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[font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3][cool]Hey there Scuffy_Fly it feels just a little thicker than a 3/0.[/size][/green][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]I think thread is thread. As Scruffy said Yong Special, but his is with a Coats and Clark that can be untwisted to lay flat on the hook (like floss) then he spins it to create like a rib.[/size][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]I have tied flies with SILK which is really cool, but you have to get the fly wet to see if that is the effect you want.[/size][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]I generally use 14/0 because it is so strong, but allowes for the extra wraps. Besides, what would you expect on 30's and 32's.[/size][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]A good friend of mine (creator of the Hasbro) found some cool Coats And Clark thread that is two colors and it makes some incredible bodies.[/size][/font]
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I love that Griffith's 14/0 thread for sure.
Fly Goddess -
A Whiting Farms Tier I know likes to use DMC25 white, which is a 4 strand thread. He peels off on strand. He ties it in with a contrasting fly tying thread such as red, black, green makeing a good thread base. Then wraps the DMC up the hook and ties off with the tying thread. When you wet it the fly takes on a translucent look with the base thread showing through the white.
I never fish with size 28-30-32 flys. Figure that you then need to use 7x and 8x tippet. Then I figure you have lots of break offs and leave hooks and maybe tippet in a majority of the fish. If you don't break off then the fish is pretty tuckerd out by the time you land em. On big fish, my understanding is it that you have a higher precentage of latten mortality if you severely tire them. Just my opinion without any real experience at that. I don't know how you would know for sure about latten mortality unless you did some kind of controlled study in a confined tank.
......... But the main reason is I have a hard enough time tying a size 26 on to a tippet.
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black]Scruffy, just a few things. First off if a 28 to a 32 fly gets left in a fish, how long do you think before it disintegrate?[/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"]I do use flouro, and am aware that it will not, so I am very careful with it, but the fact that it is attached to the hook that will, releaves that from the fish.[/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black] You are right on the 7X and 8X breaking off, that is why I don't use it either. Believe it or not, I use 6X flouro and have not had a breakoff yet. [/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black]Playing a fish it is important to do it quickly, [/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black]I also feel that this is were a slower action rod comes into play on the smaller flies, not only do you feel the take, the tip will take a lot of the pressure off the tippet. [/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black] I use a 5 wt often. I will use a 2wt to a 4wt on the Middle Provo, where the average fish is 12" (some bigger and smaller) and I use a 5wt on the Lower Provo ( average fish 16") and of course I use a 6wt on Henrys where the fish,......well, the 34" in the picture.[/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"] [black]I have landed a 21" brown last year on my 4wt Bamboo with a size 30 and 6X in the current. With a slow action rod, you don't break tippet and yet have the power. Took me minutes to pull the fish out of the current to the side them land it. Leaving it in the net in the water, reached for my camera only to have it turn and swim away. [/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black] Rivers, the fish are fighting the current and in my opinion a little stronger. I do revive all fish and sometimes it is immediate, others up to 20 minutes, plus just cause the fish swims off, doesn't mean it will survive.[/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black] Working at the Lodge this year, I got to see more of what can and can't happen. The lakes on the property are all shallow, they are adding Oxygenators this year, because it got so warm this year the fish were very sluggish and a few transplant kills, but with all the clients I took out on these lakes, there was minimal kills( in fact non from my clients, not saying I am better than the others, just that I only worry about my clients,) and I am at the lodge for a couple of days after trips. And one last word, these fish were tuffer than I would have thought.[/black][/font] [cool]
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I think it takes at least a number of weeks for a hook to disintegrate to the point where it would fall out. I think that a fish’s mouth gets abscessed in a matter of days to where it falls. There must be some research information on the Internet about that but I have not run across it.
Your comment about slower actions rods makes sense.
I would agree that river fish are stronger than lake fish. They would also tend to be smaller because they burn a lot more energy all of the time. But I have no idea that one would build up the detrimental acids quicker during a fight. If it takes 20 minutes to revive a fish I would that say that it has a lot higher likelihood of dieing later on after swimming away than a fish that revives quickly. I would also say that the likelihood of it dieing after the next time it is caught and released also increases, similar to a cumulative type of effect that we see in many of human illnesses.
The survival rate of fish in catch and release areas must be very high because there are lots of fish still in those waters.
There is a private pond owner around here who discourages people from pulling the fish out of the water and handling them. He preaches strongly about leaving the fish in the water and removing the hook while minimizing the handling of the fish. His opinion is that handling the fish greatly increases the likelihood of it getting a fungal growth that eventually kills the fish. What do you think?
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DNR Division of Fish and Wildlife - Winter 1998
Ask the DNR
Q. In its statements on catch-and-release, the DNR says it's better to leave a deeply im-bedded hook in a fish's mouth and cut the line than to rip the hook out. The hook will supposedly dissolve. But how do biologists know this? en
A. There is no existing scientific research on the topic, but DNR fisheries biologists have observed fish surviving with hooks in various stages of "being dissolved" in their bodies. And many anglers have caught fish with a partially dissolved hook in its gut.
Many variables determine how fast the hook will dissolve, and if the fish will survive at all. These include hook location (throat, stomach, mouth, etc.), hook size, fish size, temperature (most reactions occur faster at higher temperatures, so a hook would probably dissolve faster in the summer than in the winter). A hook in the mouth may dissolve, but it could also work loose and fall out. A hook in the mouth might hamper feeding behavior, but only temporarily.
A hook in the gill, however, will almost always prove fatal because it interrupts the respiratory process before it gets a chance to dissolve. Hooks in the stomach will nearly always dissolve, if internal organs have not received life-threatening damage from the hook (such as during a fight between fish and angler).
How long does it take for a hook to dissolve? Again there are lots of variables, such as hook size and fish size. DNR fisheries biologists estimate that it would take roughly two to three weeks for an ?average? hook to be dissolved by the ?average? fish?without too much indigestion.
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]That is what I found. Now 28 to 32 is nothing. As far as abscessed, no clue, have never heard or seen it to be a problem.[/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3] Now as far as fish in rivers being smaller, I think it is more location. There are MONSTERS in the lower not to mention the 28" brown I caught in the Madison.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3] I practice safe catch and release religiously, which means: wet your hands before even touching the fish, keep it in the water or very quick on the out take. Revive the fish totally (which can be quick or very slow, the 20 minutes I talked about was a quick land, but maybe temp, age and overall health of the fish required the full revival) and avoid gills at all cost. Even in the picture of the 34" might look like I am gilling her, my fingers are bent and cradled the jaw.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3] Fishing is a blood sport, like it or not. Anytime you HOOK a fish you have effected it's life span. You can do all the right things to ensure the LEAST amount of damage, but no guarantees.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3] Exceptions to the rule: THE FISH OF A LIFE TIME and got to have the pictures, knowing fully well that it is killing the fish to some degree, therefore...a blood sport.[/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3] The private pond owner has the right idea. First off, is his pond generating oxygen into the water? Fish in the ponds, take a pounding and get caught several times in their life. By doing what he asks, they will get bigger and bigger and says that they can adapt to being caught.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]The fungus appears on a lot of the big fish in the Lower Provo which gets pounded hard. Mostly see it around the fall. The fungus can also be from various things, getting hooked on a regular basis and handled is certainly one, but stress from spawning can contribute AND DIGGING FOR REDS also. Plus who knows what else.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3] Dude, I am digging this so much, keep going! I love reading your posts. RIGHT ON AND TIGHT LINES[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]FG[/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Sorry Dryrod, we kinda hi-jacked your thread post, but at least there in activity going on here[cool][/size][/black][/font]
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Yes, We did steal his "thread" big time. Lost my bobbin I guess.
As we were saying. - Griffith's 14/0 is a nice thread to use. It lays on flat without a lot of build up. I use it a lot from size 16 down to size 26 flys.
I find it to work quite nicely for parachute style flys. I use a technique from a European that works great for tying off post hackles for small parachute flys.
When you get to doing some parachute drys shout at me I will point you in the direction.
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[#008000][size 3]Hey that’s cool flygoddess for it doesn't matter how many tangents there are in a tread. Activity is the name of the game. Speaking about hooks dissolving we had a discussion on this subject here a while back. Will look and see if I can find it. Although it might have been lost a while back when a few thousand posts of this forum disappeared. Here is a quote from an on-line [/size][size 3]tackle company:[/size]
[/#008000][font "Arial"][#804000][size 2]Aren’t hooks supposed to dissolve to help save fish?[/size][/#804000][/font][/url]
[black][size 3]There is no such thing as a “dissolving” hook. “Dissolving” hooks are a marketing creation. All hooks rust and corrode in water. When hooks rust they produce toxins. It appears that it is these toxins that get fish sick, disturbing them from breeding, when that does not kill them.
[/size][/black][url "http://www.emperortackle.com/faq/index.php#Hooks & Lures#Hooks & Lures"][/url][black][size 2][/size][/black]
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[center][font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3]The discussion of hooks dissolving took place back in March of this year. Here is the link:[/size][/green][/font][/center]
[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=251125;search_string=hooks;#251125"]http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=251125;search_string=hooks;#251125[/url]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Ya I read that propaganda also. Amazing thing is, this company sells GOLD PLATED HOOKS. See where I am going?[  ] Plus I think they deal with Salt Water tackle.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]I disagree that a hook WON'T dissolve and I thought rust was a mineral, not a toxin, but I could be out in left field on that.[/size][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]I have a little more faith in the DNR.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Do you realize how many fish this would effect if at all remotely try?! Amazing we still have fish[laugh][/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Poor Richard"][#008000][size 3][b]I am going back in time to my chemistry class in college and I sort of remember that things in solution will dissolve. For instance a cube of sugar melting/dissolving in one's coffee. A hook in a fishes's mouth would be going through a chemical reaction. These are entirely different processes. While I majored in Veterinarian science, ichthyology wasn’t one of my electives. Who knew that this subject was going to come up some day?[/size][/#008000][/font][/b]
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