Seagull feeding ban in state parks proposed

[davetclown]

Patrons of the Highland Recreation Area, Pontiac Lake Recreation Area, Dodge Park No. 4, Proud Lake Recreation Area, as well as other state parks outside the lakes area may no longer be able to toss bread crumbs, crackers, or other scraps of "people food" to seagulls while at the parks if a Michigan House of Representatives Bill becomes law.

House Bill (HB) 6400, which was introduced Tuesday, Sept. 5, by primary sponsor Rep. Barbara Vander Veen (R-Allendale), would amend the state's Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act to prohibit the feeding of seagulls at state parks.

The bill would also make entry into state parks conditional upon compliance with state park rules, and would expel those who feed seagulls at a state park for one day.

HB 6400 was referred to the House Conservation, Forestry, and Outdoor Recreation Committee following its introduction.

Reps. Kathleen Law (D-Rockwood) and Paula Zelenko (D-Burton) co-sponsored the bill.

The Michigan Department of Natural Resources (DNR) has not yet taken an official stance on the bill as introduced because of some of its language, according to DNR Acting Press Secretary Ann Wilson. She said prohibiting people from feeding seagulls isn't the issue, so much as it's the proposed penalty for violating the ban.

"Our preference with regard to anybody feeding seagulls or any other wild animals is to educate them about the problems associated with that kind of behavior rather than removing them from the state parks," she said. "For that reason, we've not really taken an official position on it."

DNR Legislative Liaison Rodney Stokes said the DNR is still reviewing the bill.

"Our staff right now is looking at the bill to see if there's a way we can suggest an amendment to it before we just outright say we oppose it," he said.

According to Stokes, the DNR relies on park visitors to fund the parks system, and expelling people, notably kids who may not know better, would be missing out on a chance to teach people why they shouldn't feed the seagulls.

"We have about 20 million visitors in our state parks each year, and one of the roles of our state parks is to educate people about the outdoors," Stokes said. "We feel that if people are feeding seagulls or other animals, which is inappropriate to do, expelling those people for a day would be a negative way to try to get them to understand the importance of natural resources.

"We would rather use that as an opportunity to educate them."
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[lonehunter]

Well I don't agree with this at all .
One , feeding gulls is no big deal . How many city adults out there as little tykes had their first encounter with wildlife by feeding gulls or ducks at a pond ? Yea, let's rob our youth of that experiance .

Two , maybe private business can enforce that policy on their private property , but on public land ?

How in the heck can feeding a few birds justify banning anyone from land they have a right to enjoy , since they are paying for that land in taxes and entrance fees ?

What's next , backyard bird feeders , gardens that attract bees , butterflys,finches and hummingbirds ? What about the D.E.Q and the D.N.R. funding deer habitat restoration on private land thru grants , should that be done away with as well ?
Heck us fishermen use bait , thats feeding fish , should we ban fishing as well ?

When the state starts banning feeding one species of wildlife it opens the door for other species to be put on that list .
When you start banning our residents from land they have a right to , That just makes my stomach turn .

I'm going to send some E-mails out and make some calls . This is a stupid waste of our tax dollars and a threat to our rights .
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[lonehunter]

I sent this out to my rep [font "Arial"]Tim Moore[/font].
[font "Arial"][size 1]House Bill (HB) 6400, which was introduced Tuesday, Sept. 5, by primary sponsor Rep. Barbara Vander Veen (R-Allendale), Reps. Kathleen Law (D-Rockwood) and Paula Zelenko (D-Burton) co-sponsored the bill.[/size][/font] [font "Arial"][size 1][/size][/font][font "Arial"][size 1]I do hope that you as well as our other State represanitives realise that this bill is a waste of our tax dollers and a stepping stone to other bans that could infringe on the rights of our citicins here in Michigan .[/size][/font] [font "Arial"][size 1]First , this is a childish bill and a waste of time and money , I am offended to think that it was even concidered as a bill .[/size][/font] [font "Arial"][size 1][/size][/font][font "Arial"][size 1]Second , ban our citicens from our state parks for feeding a sea gull ? What's next , feeding ducks, hummingbirds or songbirds ? Should we have the D.N.R. dismantel all the nature trails and nature centers that have been built to educate our citicens about wildlife ? Clearley flowers , trees , and marshes have been enhanced to attract wildlife for veiwing at these places . [/size][/font][font "Arial"][size 1]Next they will ban the private citicen from having bird feeders or gardens that attract wildlife .[/size][/font] [font "Arial"][size 1]If this bill passes , it will lead to other nonsencical laws that will deture our future generations from enjoying all that Michigan has to offer .[/size][/font] [font "Arial"][size 1]Now if this was a ban on feeding bears at a park , I could see that , bears are dangerous creatures , but seagulls ? Give me a break !!![/size][/font] [font "Arial"][size 1]I can not recall ever seeing , hearing or reading about someone being killed and eaten by a sea gull here in Michigan . Take my word on it , I do not think they pose a major threat to our lives .[/size][/font] [font "Arial"][size 1][/size][/font][font "Arial"][size 1][size 1]
House Bill (HB) 6400 , get rid of it !
Thank you ,


I'm hoping the D.N.R. oppose this bill completley , skip any ammendements made , just throw it in the trash can and be done with it .[/size][/size][/font]
I bet those three gals who are tring to push this bill thru all wear the same perfume " P.E.T.A. "
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[davetclown]

lol, I thought the other post would have gotten a better rise,[laugh]

it is funny you should mention {[size 1]What's next , backyard bird feeders[/size]} Well the Village of wolverine in side the boarders of Commerce Twp inside the boarders of Oakland Co. has indeed passed a ban on back yard bird feeders.

for the most part the villagers are willing to follow this ban, ofcorse it would be hard to inforce other than a village officer trolling around the lake taking pictures.

the ban is suspost to cut back on the canadian geese. We well know that the dnr is collecting and replaceing goose and swan eggs with plastic dummies.

needless to say goose season here in my area sucks... but we have no place to hunt them any more either.
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[lonehunter]

Yea , you know me , jumping up on that soap box and yelling my fool head off [crazy], LOL !

The problem I see here is we have people representing us ,( some with a whole buncha book learning behind them , mind you ) that can't or won't think for themselves .

Some jerk or jerkette got a bird dropping on there lexus and had to wipe it off all by themselves , poor baby .
They write some bonehead, bleach blond ,dark roots , got more wrinkles than a prune , overweight , dumpy legged , tater chip and diet coke eating , couldn't pass up a mall without causing a traffic jam , lady and she says , humm that sounds like a good law , I think I'll make a bill to pass it into law .
Does the bimbo look at the bill from all sides , does she concider our civil libertys and the threat this bill will have to them, does she try to invision future relminifications that this bill could be used for ? hell no , she dosen't spend one moment in time thinking about this , brain cells are just too hard for her to start in the morning , so why bother starting them at all unless a sale is on at J.C. Pennys .

My message to her ,
We have been given brains , it is a usefull orgin that like a mussel needs to be exersized every day , God sakes woman , put down the krispy cream donught and break out the with the mental flex jim !
Don't think just what other people tell you , think for yourself !

Too many people with lazy brains running our government .
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[davetclown]

I can remember the days when seaguls were not a common site in michigan, I was but knee high to a pollywog when I first spotted a seagul hovering over my house and I pointed it out and my dad told me seagulls dont live in michigan. well they followed the garbage freightors back up the hudson and st lorance though the eri canal up in to the great lakes. first finding dumping grounds, then as their numbers increased to the point where there were more birds than a dumping ground can handle and other grounds were capped off the birds had to find other feeding grounds, they inturn turned tward public refuge cans. they hold half sandwiches, tater salads and all other types of goodies.

it is funny how misguided some represenitives can be, they go to a park and see a kid thow a peice of baloney sandwich to a seagul or other wild animal and think that the kid or adult is responcible for changing the habits of animals.

if these animals habits were so changed wouldnt ya think that the bag limits of hunters would increase insted of dwindling?

not feeding gulls in a park will have nothing to do with reducing the number or freequency of gull visits to a park. Gulls visit parks because of how a park handles its daily refuge. "trash"

if they realy want to reduce the un-natural gull problem in this state they will have to start targeting them at the trash dumps, but forcing dumps to spray their dumping pits would cost money that gives no return other that eliminate gulls - so why not just pass an idiot law like dont feed the gulls, just throw you un wanted sandwich in the can where the coons can pick it up after the sun goes down and the gulls and crows can clean up the rest at the break of dawn.

dont be to hard on them just yet, the other issue is more important to us anglers than having a place to throw our gobys to. Yes I am guilty of taking my goby off of my line and tossing them to the gulls on the board walk, guess I will just to have to throw them in a bucket to die and then throw them in to the can on my way out of the park. The law says I cant release non native fish back in to the waters of michigan, well we only have four options. keep them and take them home, feed them to the gulls, put them in the can, release them back in to the water.

now dose any one here think I am going to cart goby home with me? remember the law now states it is illegal to transport non native fish in michigan.[]
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[lonehunter]

Well , I won't go too overboard [blush] , not for me anyway . I did recive a few responces .
Dear Allen, Thank you for your e-mail regarding HB 6400 concerning the prohibition of feeding seagulls at Michigan State Parks. It is always encouraging to see citizens such as you becoming involved in the legislative process. As of September 5, 2006, this bill has been referred to the House Committee on Conservation, Forestry, and Outdoor recreation. Often times, frivolous legislation slips through the cracks, while bills regarding issues which are important for the people of the state of Michigan are ignored. As your elected official I am here to represent your interests, as well as to make sure the passage of unneeded legislation does not occur. Therefore, Please be assured that I will take your thoughts into consideration while making my decision regarding this bill. Once again, thank you for your e-mail and please feel free to contact me with any questions or concerns you may have regarding this, or any other issue. Sincerely, State Representative Tim Moore
97th District
P.O. Box 30014
Lansing, MI 48909-7514
Office: (517) 373-8962
Toll-Free: (866) MOORE-97
Fax: (517) 373-7195
Online: [url "http://www.gophouse.com/moore.htm"]www.gophouse.com/moore.htm[/url]
[size 3][font "Times New Roman"]Dear Allen and Michelle,[/font][/size]
[font "Times New Roman"][size 3] [/size][/font]
[size 3][font "Times New Roman"]Thank you for contacting my office with your concerns about HB 6400.[/font][/size]
[font "Times New Roman"][size 3] [/size][/font]
[size 3][font "Times New Roman"]In an effort to better address your concerns, please send me your home[/font][/size]
[size 3][font "Times New Roman"]mailing address. Let me assure you, this is in no way intended to convey unwillingness on my part to be of assistance. Rather it is a matter of professional courtesy to allow the appropriate legislator the opportunity to assist his or her own constituents.[/font][/size]
[font "Times New Roman"][size 3] [/size][/font]
[size 3][font "Times New Roman"]Again, thank you for contacting me, I look forward to hearing from you.[/font][/size]
[font "Times New Roman"][size 3] [/size][/font]
[size 3][font "Times New Roman"]Sincerely,[/font][/size]
[font "Times New Roman"][size 3][/size][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][size 3]Glenn Steil, Jr.[/size][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][size 3]State Representative [/size][/font]
72nd District

These two are from the sponsors/supporters of the bill [mad].
Dear Allen & Michelle:

Gulls are deep water fowl that in their natural habitat, live and feed
off shore. In their natural habitat, gull waste is filtered through the
waters and sands of the lakes, posing no threat to humans. The high
levels of e. coli bacteria that is closing our beaches and causing
sickness in humans, has been directly connected to the increased amount
of gull waste. The birds are being coaxed inland by people feeding them
either directly or indirectly.

While this may seem innocent and harmless, it is no laughing matter when
someone you love is stricken by this dangerous bacteria that can be
fatal, as we have recently seen with the spinach issue.
Gull feeding is more of a problem in some areas of the state than others
and it is not known at this time if the bill is scheduled for a
hearing. But one thing is for certain, the introduction of this bill is
bringing about awareness and is educating citizens.
I hope this helps give you a better understanding why the legislation
was introduced.

Sincerely,
Paula Zelenko
State Representative
50th District
[font "Times New Roman"][size 3]Thank you for contacting my office. I appreciate you taking the time to share your concerns.[/size][/font] Through contacts in my district I am finding that there are growing concerns about bacterial contamination, which seagull waste is a part of. Because of e-coli, and public nuisance concerns, limiting seagull waste is something we need to work towards. When people feed the seagulls, more are attracted to the beaches thus raising the levels of the bacteria and further polluting our wonderful waterfronts. This bill was not meant to punish people, it was my hope that it would start a discussion that I believe needs to happen. This bill was not at all about my personal reasons, but was about a chance to keep our beaches safe from contamination for all citizens to enjoy. Again, thank you for sharing your opinion on this bill. Sincerely, Barb Vander Veen


Thank you for your email regarding your concerns with House Bill 6400, a bill that would prohibit the feeding of seagulls in State Parks. This bill was referred to the Committee on Conservation, Forestry, and Outdoor Recreation. I will certainly keep your thoughts in mind if this bill ever gets out of committee and before me for a vote on the House Floor. Sincerely, Dan Acciavatti State Representative 32nd Distrist --------------------
Representative Daniel J. Acciavatti
P.O. Box 30014
Lansing, MI 48909 Phone: (517) 373-8931
Toll-Free: 1-866-DIST-032
Fax: (517) 373-8637
E-Mail: [url "mailto:danielacciavatti@house.mi.gov"]danielacciavatti@house.mi.gov[/url] Visit my online office at:
[url "http://www.gophouse.com/acciavatti.htm"]http://www.gophouse.com/acciavatti.htm[/url] To subscribe to the Acciavatti Agenda, my
legislative e-newsletter, send a request to:
[url "mailto:danielacciavatti@house.mi.gov"]danielacciavatti@house.mi.gov[/url]
15of the legislaturers have responded with auto responces , the rest have not replyd as of yet.

This is what I am thinkig of sending as a responce to the two ladies .

So let me get this strait , Seagulls are responsible for the e-coli , not the freighters dumping there waste , not the raw sewarage treatment plants dumping there overflow , not the fly by night porta-potty companys that dump in sewers and rivers , not the medical waste that we see washing up on shore and definatly not from the tons of lake vegitation that decays , washes up to shore and festers there .
I'ts all because some kid feeds a bird a french fry ?
Boy, with my limited education I feel stupid !
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[davetclown]

sound like a bunch of side talking,

hope ya didnt give your true address,

I would would send a reply including the history of the gull in michigan I gave above and ask why they are not targeting gulls at dumpsites with fly over sprays like thay do the black birds in kentucky, and then ask them about what about all the swans and canadian geese that they have been culling by collection of hatchlings and eggs and in some cases adult birds.

you can say, I thought they were the problem.

you can also ask why all lake front houses in the state have not been inspected for septic leakage once a year if the isue is so great. for that matter why havent you allowed the dnr environmental officers to ruteenly moniter runoffs from dranage ditches storm drains ect... around sencitive areas. (meaning beaches that are getting closed down)

they do this by running die in to the system and look for where it shows up. pretty simple test.

You can also ask why there is not a regulatory law concerning boats with out house ficilities, meaning why is there a manditory log showing when and where every flush was preformed and cirtified by some one licensed at that station insted of the honor system. and why isnt canada doing the same thing?

one thing I will tell you for a fact, their vote is public knolage, meaning you have the right to know every bill that has passed befor them that they voted "for" "against" "obstained" "or was absent at the time of the vote"

dont forget to check up on them and pass the word around the hood.

I have sat in my congressmans chair in the state house, and used his voting machein, every vote is shown up on a large board, no vote is secrete.

we are faceing the hottest temp the world has ever seen in the last million years by the year 2050. souldnt we be more concerned about getting our industry switched over to making cars running on non carbon releasing systems, reducing by education the number of people on the planet,

there are so many issues that rank so far above seagull droppings that this bill is not only a joke but an insult.
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[davetclown]

I forgot to mention why you should not have given your real address.

the reason is,

you never know when a politition has an attatched line attatched to a bill that has nothing at all to do with the bill. The last thing they want is some one putting out negitive responces to a non issue ajenda.

we only had one honest governer in the last four persons to hold the seat, this incluldes milliken, blanchard ingler and grandholm. "Blanchard being the only honest one.

he lost his seat when he raised the state income tax from 4.6% to 5% temporarily, then drops it back down after balancing his budget. Republicans chastized Blanchard for this atrosity. Ingler gets in to office and moves the state tax rate up to 6% and was patted on the back.

Only contact those who live where you live, this way everybody knows everybody. and no body can do anything with out some one else knowing about it.

would it be nice to know what was on the bill before it was voted on, I think as a people we should have that right. unfortunatly, these guys can attach a line on at any time though the process. every person in the state congress and state senant has the oppertunity to put in a line.
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[lonehunter]

Give me any ideas to go in this reply to them:


It seems to me that E-coli is being used as an excuse to enact this bill , the ability or authority to remove undesireables from our state parks is the real issue here .
I do not believe that feeding a gull will be last of the public banning acts that will be passed if it is not stopped now .
Who is to say that this type of [size 1]infringement [/size]on our civil liberties is a justifiable act ? No one person has that right in our country .
I view this bill as a stepping stone to other legislature that will soon ban certain [size 1]economically[/size] challenged races from enjoying our public lands and rights to our public waterways .
When you take into [size 1]consideration [/size]what this bill is actually stating
" Ban the person from use of the Michigan State Park " .
There is no violent act or behavior being [size 1]committed[/size], therefore , banning is [#0000ff][size 1]illegal[/size][/#0000ff] . Do your duty and uphold not only our Michigan State Constitution but uphold our Federal Constitution and our bill of rights as free Americans.

[size 1]I would like to know what biologist came up with the idea that Gull are the sole reason for E-coli outbreaks . As I understand , beach water contamination is due to several causes .[/size]
[size 1] First , the most common contaminate , decaying lake vegetation . Global warming has caused an increase not only in air temperature , but a dramatic increase in lake temperatures as well , thermal killing of aquatic vegetation has been on the rise for years. Huge mounds of decaying vegetation wash inshore where it rots , E-coli is just one of the known byproducts .[/size]
[size 1] Second , Human waste , several catalysts in this topic . Legal dumping of human waste in our lakes and rivers include ;[/size]
[size 1] Overflow expulsion when waste treatment plants exceed their maximum capacity. Discharge of human waste products from a waste treatment plant due to machine malfunction and/or structure failure of holding tanks or human error.I'm sure the D.E.Q. could give you information on how many hundreds of thousands of gallons of raw untreated human waste is dumped into our Michigan waters each and every year . [/size]
[size 1][#0000ff]Illegally[/#0000ff] dumping of human waste ; Shipping freighter from around the world dump garbage and waste into our waters . Pleasure boats , most small vessels do not have bathroom facilities on them .[/size]
[size 1] Lake lot owners themselves have faulty septic systems or the old "grandfathered in" strait pipe out into the lake that discharges their waste .[/size]
[size 1] Port-a-potty companies that dump waste into creeks and rivers to avoid the extra cost of disposing human waste at treatment plants . Should we include the [#0000ff]illegal [/#0000ff]dumping of medical waste as well ? [/size]
[size 1][/size]
[size 1]One response from a legislator was that not being from the area I wouldn't understand the issue. Really ? I have lived in Gladwin for about eight years now , before that I resided in the downriver area of Detroit .I am a fisherman , I travel all over the state fishing , not just a couple weekends a year , Every week of the year , several times a week . [/size]
[size 1]The islands of the Detroit River have huge populations of gullian and other water foul , E-coli has never been a problem as long as I can remember . [/size]
[size 1]Duck and Goose hunting in Monroe , never an outbreak there either . Fecies from the rather large goose population in the metro area have never closed a single golf course from E-coli contamination .Have you ever been to a golf course and seen what a goose can do in a day ? A single goose produces 240 pounds of fecies a year . If E-coli where a problem from bird droppings , you would find it on every golfcourse green .There would not be a open for business golf course left in the state unless it had a hasmat team working around the clock every day of the year.[/size]
[size 1] I am an avid outdoors person , I know of several bird breeders , E-coli has not been a problem with them either . I have fished , hunted and trapped in swamps with slow moving waters that have plenty of waterfoul , if contamination from bird droppings were a problem it most assured would show up in those areas first . Before you commit to this issue (house bill 6400) , I would strongly research and question the "biologist " that came up with seagulls as the problem . I will be forwarding this message not only to other legislators , but to quite a number of other outdoor orgisinations that I am involved with .[/size]
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[davetclown]

sorry I took so long, it needed some thought. there is just so much you can throw at them. but the most important one is, why is the bill there in the first place when we have more pressing issues.

the things I have mentioned in earlier post and the following you can add.

---

ask why grandholm has not re-enstated the athority of the DNR and putting back the elected official position that was stripped with out michigans voters having a say in the matter?

---

what is this prok belly issue doing on the dockets to begin with? If the DNR had the athority like it once had before it was stripped of its power by our last governer with out my vote on the subject mind you, we wouldnt be discussing this issue at all, the state would have already targeted the gulls in the dump sites around the entire great lakes area, including spraying or dusting of freighter bound trash that is going to be capped over in dumps. the birds eat it there and die there. more gulls will come in because of no gulls fighting for feeding grounds when they are dropping there. We have two weekends, memorial day and labor day weekends where the dumps are closed.

I do understand that gulls transport ecoli along with other deseases associated with dumps sites. but feeding or not feeding them will have no barring on the gulls being in the park to begin with to be fed.

You could ask them that if the gull problem is so prevailent, why have they not targeted them in the dumps around the entire great lakes regeon not just in michigan.

there are two weekends of which the dumps are closed that local planes can do a fly over and kill countless numbers of gulls, that fly hundreds of miles in a days time.

---

ask why thier nest are not raded the same time goose and swan nests are in the spring. they already have some one out in the feild that can pick up a rock or two and put it in place of a few eggs.

---

You could ask why this issue has even found time on the floor when there are by far more pressing issues, like our market beeing flooded with product not manufactured in michigan. ask why the state hasnt reinitiated the MCC again to put some of our youths to work cleaning these parks and get them out of our streets robbing, killing, doing drugs/raping women and children! we are facing social problems/failures in our societies due to the fact these people have no other resorce to turn to other than commit a hanus crime so they can bump some one else out of jail early so they can have a bed and food.

Michigan Concervation Core deisgned to take unemployed people off the streets by putting them to work with no more benifit than minimum wage untill which time economic conditions turn around and these people can be re-educated to qualify for the jobs of the future.

---

You can ask why our schools do not run another two more years to further prepare these young people in spicific traids that are coming in. you can ask why we dont have free education for any one of any age who wants to return to the labor force and has no money to compete for classes.

You can tell them that maybe they dont understand what is wrong with this bill. in that any minute spent away from the issue mentioned above is nothing short of Us the voters have failed to put the right people in office, and we do know how to color in a circle or thow a switch of a ballot come next ellection.
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[lonehunter]

Got a reply ;
Dear Allen: The intent of the bill is to reduce the amount of gull feces on the beaches, period. All of what you say is good information that should be brought up in debate during the committee process. There are literally hundreds of bills that die in committee because, although the intent is good, the consquences could be worse. You may very well have shed some light on some unintended consequences with this one. Thank you for the ammo. I love to play the devil's adocate, too. I hope you will keep watch on the progress of HB 6400 and consider coming to a committee hearing on it. You seem well versed, confident, and willing to take a stand. Citizens like you are what makes the legislative process work. In case you are not aware, you can track this bill and any other at [url "http://www.michiganlegislature.com"]www.michiganlegislature.com[/url]. Thanks for your continued input. Paula Zelenko State Representative 50th District
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[davetclown]

kewl beens,

sounds like you got a good one this time.

I thought you would have been half way between here and there by this time. heard they were biting hand over fist last weekend.
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[lonehunter]

YEA , GUESS A LITTLE POOH ON HER TOES WAS THE REAL ISSUE HERE [mad].

THE FISH ARE HITTING HARD [cool], I WAS SUPOSED TO BE THERE BY NOW[unsure].
BUT , I COULDN'T RESIST BUGGEN THEM LAW MAKERS ABOUT THE OTHER BILL[].
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[cadresults]

Your tax dollars hard at work!
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