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[font "Times New Roman"][size 3]I’m just curious if anyone knows why it’s against the law to use live minnows in Utah? I was stationed in Texas for 8 years and live minnows were as common there as worms are here. I have heard several theories but nothing difinitive.[/size][/font]
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[font "Times New Roman"][size 3]Thanks,[/size][/font]
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I am sure someone will chime in with the correct answer, but last I remember/heard you could not use live minnows anywhere WEST of the Continental Divide. Now I could be wrong, who knows. Reason I say that is because I have heard of guides on Lake Mead using live minnows for the stripers down there. I use to live in Colorado, so it was kind of weird going east and picking up a few dozen live minnows and using them for Wipers and Walleye, then heading West past the "divide" and not being able to purchase or use them.
TS
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I think Arizona allows live bait in most of their counties. It probably has something to do with the difficulty managing these clean mountain reservoirs. Wasn't Scofield and Strawberry poisoned to clean out the over-population of chubs? In Minnesota and in Canada I've fished with live sucker minnows up to a pound in weight. Could it be they're afraid of populating the lake with the wrong breeds?
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That's what I understood. Using live minnows created too much of a threat, for whatever reason, of chubs escaping and taking over a body of water like they've done to some lakes in the past.
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there is NO reason to why you can't use live bait in Utah!
other than the DWR that is!
they are thinking to meny bad fisherman would try and fish with something that catch's fish!
there is no reason that in Utah if you catch the minnows in a body of water, you should be able to use them in that body of water.. but the Utha DWR don't see it that way! sorry dude no live bait yet!! soon tho
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Utah historically had lots of things go wrong with fish management, and that's why the DWR nowadays in this state is a little strict. The reason they have that no live bait law is because of the fear of transplanting non native fish and whacking out the ecosystem. That's what happened at Strawberry that triggered their massive poisoning project in 1990 I think it was. Now the same thing has happened at Scofield and other places but they're using Tiger Trout to offset the Chubs, since their feeding habits and growth rates are superior to Rainbows for controlling the Chubs. The worst thing anyone ever did was plant Carp by the way. Anyway, what fishermen would do is come with a bucket of live minnows and when they were done fishing they would dump the bucket of fish in the water, similar to what I often do with worms after I'm done fishing and know I won't be using them again soon. Along that train of thought they just decided to ban live minnows as bait. Other states have done the same thing. I agree that it is a little strict. I know I would do the responsible thing if I was using them, but there are always idiots who screw things up for the rest of us. I do think you should be able to use live fish as bait if they come from the same body of water.
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[cool][#0000ff]There are quite a few of us Utah BFTers who have lived and fished in many other places around the country...and who just shake our heads in wonder when we read the Utah proclamation. What it boils down to in many instances is "THERE AIN'T NO GOOD REASON FER IT. IT'S JUST POLICY."[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I have lived and fished in Utah off and on since the early 1960's. I witnessed the first big poisoning of Strawberry in 1963 (as I reckymember). There was just about every species of trout and non-trout you could imagine, floating on the lake. It was ugly.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I suspect that the resurgence of the chubs in Strawberry was probably as much a matter of incomplete poisoning as bucket bozos reintroducing them. There is no way to effectively follow up every trickle and tributary and hunt down every last chub and shiner. Over time they exploded again and rainbows could not and would not keep up with them. And until the massive plants of Bear Lake cutts and the aggressive slot restrictions, the shiners and chubs were on the way to taking over the lake again. Not now.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It was no secret that some Utah "sportsmen" were fishing with live chubs, even when it was illegal. Always a few who try to see what they can get away with. But, I still think that a high percentage of the chub infestations in Utah are more a matter of the chubs already being in the water and just plain outcompeting hatchery pet rainbows.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Golden shiners, in Newcastle, is another story. I understand they are also found in a couple of other lakes easily reached by anglers from Sin City (Vegas). [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There are valid ecological reasons why DWR is violently against the transport and use of live minnows. First, is the potential of introducing an overly competitive and destructive new species to a fragile fishery. Secondly, with the ongoing battle against whirling disease and some of the other potential microbial nasties we might face, it is just plain not good biology to transport anything...live, dead or inert...from one water to another without proper testing and certification.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Of course a lot of DWR detractors would have you believe that DWR simply does not want us to use bait that would be too effective. Balderdash. They spend a ton to recruit anglers and to stock waters to provide good fishing for the masses. Attend meetings with dedicated DWR folks and the ongoing theme is "What can we do to make for a better angling experience in Utah?".[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]But, that still doesn't set well with anglers who have lived in states where there is abundant live bait and you can use it anywhere, anytime for any species. Using live minnows can really help you catch more fish in many cases. But, again, we have some pretty darned good fishing in Utah, and some of the best fly fishing in the country. Artificials work just fine if you take the time to learn how to use them. And, there is always the garden hackle...or plenty of bugs in season.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]HOWSOMEVER....I have still never received a satisfactory answer on why anglers cannot use corn in Utah...even for the lowly carp. You wouldn't believe some of the wild stories. 1. Fish can't digest corn and it kills them. 2. It is used for chumming and it poisons the bottom of the lake when it stacks up 4 feet deep. 3. It attracts corn-eating aliens from outer space. (Okay, I made up the last one)[/#0000ff]
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well your allmost right. the (utah chub) your talking about have been in utah waters long before anything the DWR have planted.. and if ya look back in the records it was very wide spred through out the state!
the DWR has been trying to kill it in just about every lake they are found in. with very little effect on the chub.. that war has been going on for years. but it's hard to kill a fish that is so well suted to the water we have here in Utah! they thrive in drout can take over a lake or water system by shear numbers. so if the dwr's woryed about chub getting where they should not be. i ask why? they were hear first and don't seem to want to give up there water rights.. and they are some of the best big fish food there is!!
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Glad this discussion came up, as I've always wondered (but never asked) why live minnows aren't allowed here. Minnows were a preferred bait for many of the species I fished in the lakes and rivers in California. You could get them at most bait shops. I wonder if one of the reasons I haven't seen any bait shops in Utah is due to the fact the type of live baits that are generally used here are easy to come by. In California there were bait shops everywhere and minnows were one of the baits that were abundant. Others included mudsuckers, bullheads, jumbo minnows (they were big), crawdads etc. I don't think you could even use a casting net legally to catch live minnows in California so you needed a bait shop to get them.
I would say that not having the option of using live minnows has really made the Utah fishermen/women really productive at using dead minnows for trout. I used dead minnows for the first time last month to catch trout and I was excited it worked. I new it would after reading all of the reports but was skeptical when I first heard of this technique. Live minnows were not one of the baits I used that frequently for trout in California and I had never seen or heard of anyone using dead minnows for trout before coming here.
For other species like bass, live minnows can be deadly. But for trout I think the group on this board has really made dead minnows one of the most effective baits at catching trout.
I still agree it would be nice to be able to use live minnows, but I still think some good has come out of it. It could be worse, you could have to pay 5 to 7 dollars a dozen for live minnows.
My 2 cents.
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Go to northeast Wyoming and you pay $5 a dozen and they count them very close. Plus you are required to have a ticket with how many minnows you bought and if you got more minnows than your ticket shows it is a pretty good fine.
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How many of you complained about the perch in Mantua or Fish Lake or Golden Shiners in Newcastle, Enterprise or Kolob?
I'm sure you all could make list of ruined water so why give bucket biologist a reason to put fish any where they want. I don't blame the DWR for banning live bait.
Besides that, the Ecological reason is enough for me.
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what reason is that? you said why give bucket biologist a reason?
if there was a way to use live bait on some lakes there would not be any Bucket biologist going on there!! and the live bait would be comeing from the same water as your fishing.. so tell me where is the buckte bio going to plant fish at? transporting live fish is the problm not fishing with live bait fish..
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Live bait? You guys are wondering about LIVE bait?
Shouldn't you be more concerned about 2008's new bait regulations that govern what kind of bait fish will be allowed?
You guys think you have it rough now. Wait until you are not allowed to purchase any old bait fish from Sportsman's, or Walmart...
FWIW -- I agree 100% with Utah's decision to NOT allow the use of live bait fish.
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[reply]FWIW -- I agree 100% with Utah's decision to NOT allow the use of live bait fish.[/reply]
If they allow the use of live minnows, they've allowed the possession of live minnows. That makes it easier for the bucket bozos to transport live minnows. Then they'll start moving more types of minnows, along with more diseases to waters that don't need 'em.
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Can you elaborate on WHAT KIND they will allow? I haven't had the opportunity to attend a RAC meeting for awhile. [cool]
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[cool][#0000ff]I haven't seen a draft of the new regs but from what I understand there will be heavy limitations placed upon selling bait captured and processed outside Utah. This would include all of the dried and bottled minnows from other states. The rapid spread of VHS and other diseases has really caused a lot of concern (rightfully) in Utah.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I doubt that chubs and shiners taken in Utah waters will be banned. But, look for some kind of sticker to certify that they are approved for sale in Utah.[/#0000ff]
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Oh that's right, the Utah Chub is a native fish species. Part of the reason for its population explosion then is not only them being used as live bait in places where they were being eradicated, but since in lots of places they were already there, it had to have been the decline in Cutthroat trout numbers coupled with the plantings of those wussy rainbows who didn't help the Cutts anymore at all.
I agree wholeheartedly with TubeDude that the reason they don't want people to use minnows has absolutely nothing to do with them thinking it will help people catch more fish. That's a ton of bull. Many people even in places that use live minnows can outfish anyone using them with artificials. Especially now that the lure technology is what it is. This is why I'm not worried too much about them saying what fish we can and cant use as bait.
The DWR's thinking is quite the opposite. They want people to catch more fish, not less. When people catch fish, they're more likely to encourage others to fish and will continue to fish throughout their lifetime. This means more licenses and funds in general, and that's what pays the DWR employees salaries. Their purpose is to preserve Utah's superb fishing for the future, and that's it. We may not agree with them all the time, and some things don't make alot of sense. People need to accept the fact that maybe, just maybe, fish biologists know more than we do about Utah's waters. Leave it up to them. They aren't our enemies. They help make the fishing in Utah what it is.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Utah DWR doesn't try to eradicate Utah chubs from their original habitats. They poison them, and try to eradicate them from waters into which they have been introduced. They weren't found in the Strawberry River drainage until somebody moved them there. They weren't in the Scofield watershed until somebody put them there. They weren't in the Beaver River drainage until someone put them there. They didn't evolve in the Panguitch drainage either. Somebody put them there.
Have they ever tried to eradicate chubs from any of the drainages of Utah Lake, Bear Lake,or the Provo River? Nope. Because they evolved there.
BTW, here's a link
http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/public_meet.../sept1.pdf
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Chubs may not be native to Strawberry res. but Remember Srawberry is an ARTIFICIAL reservoir. There were never chubs or cutthroats or rainbows. It has to be managed the best it can by man. As weak and stupid as those Bear Lake Cutts are, they eat the crap out of chubs, because that is what they naturally do. Don't blame the prestine and superb fighting rainbows for any of Strawberry's problems. They just have way too much self-respect to eat a nasty chub! And I totally agree with PBH. Live fish should NEVER be allowed for bait in a eco-sensitive area like Utah.
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[#0000ff]Of course a lot of DWR detractors would have you believe that DWR simply does not want us to use bait that would be too effective. Balderdash. They spend a ton to recruit anglers and to stock waters to provide good fishing for the masses. Attend meetings with dedicated DWR folks and the ongoing theme is "What can we do to make for a better angling experience in Utah?".[/#0000ff] [/reply]
That may be true in many cases, but if what you say is true then I can't quite get my head around this one:
Willard Bay
Possession of gizzard shad, dead or alive, is unlawful.
Why is that? If they're worried about gizzard shad being transported elsewhere (which I can fully understand) they should simply tell us "Transporting gizzard shad, dead or alive, away from Willard Bay is illegal" and still let us fish with them. I don't get it.
Hey... I just thought of something. Technically every Wiper I take home without gutting or filleting has a belly full of dead gizzard shad and I'm breaking the law. [  ]
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