Is there that much Difference between No. & So. Utah ?

[SoUtDuckHntr]

I am just a scoash so maybe someone or heck a lot of you can help me out on this. I for one get tired of standard cookie cutter answer that use I use to buy into years ago but no more.

I am going to use I-70 as a boundary between North and South for this question if you do not mind.

I have spent most of my life in Southern Utah, which have a great diversity as many as you know but I think the diversity almost stops with scenic beauty. Here is an example I was looking at the F&G web site [url "http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/fishing/basswaters.html"][#800080]http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/fishing/basswaters.html[/#800080][/url] so I have all my ducks in a row. This site tells what water has bass in it, there is five waters listed south of I-70, and as far as I know, only a couple of those have large mouth the rest is smallies.

Johnson Reservoir has some Tiger Muskie, which is a nice addition, and the lake just to the south has some perch in it, the lake I am referring to is Fish Lake. (All those perch are stunted) Gunlock has some crappie, and Enterprise might be stocked with crappie. I have counted 32 lakes listed in the proclamation for Southern Utah [url "http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/fishing/weeklyreports.html#s"][#800080]http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/fishing/weeklyreports.html#s[/#800080][/url] excluding all the lakes on Boulder Mountain, out all these lakes I dare say less than 2% of these lakes have something else in them besides trout. Don’t get me wrong I love hooking into a nice brookies ( I know the char family) on the Boulders. But their eliminating some of those lakes to put another trout in called Cut Throat, but why in the heck do all of these lakes South of I-70, have to trout? I have vented this many times before but why is it I have to travel clear to Yuba to catch a walleye.

Why is it that only Northern Utah waters are suitable for walleye, wipers, white bass ect? Where as Southern waters can only support all these hybrid trout and not other species?

Another example is I have to drive to Utah Lake to catch a white bass, since there is no water closer that has this species.

All I am asking is give us a little more variety in Southern Utah than trout to catch. Heck if we are going to make two lakes within an hrs drive of us “Trophy Fisheries” make some other lakes around us more available to another diverse fishing species.

Like I said, I just do not understand why you up North have all this available to you and we do not. Maybe it is different water type but I say it is management type; I have nothing against our local fish biologists I think they are great men but I think we could do things different here.
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[PREDATOR]

I have found that every time I have similar issues with managment practices I am underinformed. Even worse, I tend to discover that my ideas, inspired by my desires rather than my research and studies, are not in the best interest of the fishery. I have been in your shoes too many times. I went a different route though. If you contact the individuals who are in charge of the area you will find out they are amazingly in tune with the needs, limitaions, capablilities, and current conditions of the states fisheries. I kid you not, its amazing. I have been absolutley floored each time. I still have my desires and wishes, but I know now that our fisheries are in the hands of experts. People who know and do everything within thier limitaions to give us just what you are talking about.

I do know that its not much different in southern utah from northern. We all wish we had quail lake up here. We all wish that there were stripers from powell locally. We all wish our walleye fisheries had starvations numbers and fort pecks size. I personally dont care for white bass so its no big deal that its a three hour drive for me. I know that they tried to stock wipers in southern utah but they didnt take. If they didnt have the forage problem in powell, I would prefer them big huge fat stripers to willards two pound wipers an day.

And like I said, its not that much different here in northen utah, I wish we had less trout lakes and more walleye lakes, and I really wish we had a jordanelle that wasnt two hours away for small mouth. But my hat goes off to the guys at the fish and game.

One thing I do have to say is what a great state we have to fish in. I was up in oregon on the idaho border yesterday picking up my new boat. I was talking to the guys up there in the boat shop. It was amazing how little they had in the area. Smallmouth fishing on the river was the only thing worth while unless you drove a few hours. They didnt fish for many different species because there wasnt much around, and what there was didnt sound to be very productive. It made me feel glad to live where I do and have the opportunity that I do to fish here.

Although I am dying to try to get some of those big, big eyes just over the utah border in the middle of no where, at salmon creek res. Excellent chances at eyes over thirteen pounds! See, why cant that be willard bay? Shoot, why cant that be the river in the back yard!
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[SoUtDuckHntr]

I appreciate your comments predator but ya can't compare me to you.
To say I aren't informed is a slap in my face. If I am un-informed it is not from a lack of trying to be informed I have spent hrs with our local biologists in their office. I have had e-mails ignored and phone calls not replied to. In a nut shell ya want their answers?

We can't put predatory fish in the virgin river drainage, I understand that for protection reasons, Aother excuse is gosh we planted smallies in these 3 waters as if we're suppose to kneel and says praises for doing that. Then one that kills me is the that says 80% of the public want rainbow, all I can say is teach 80% of the people to fish and then poll them.

I can give ya polli nfo to if ya want it[cool]

I also have heard the excuse forage fish, well lets see how much money do we spend with retone to kill forge fish? Apparently these waters can support forage species if not why are they so full of them? Ya know if we imported a undesirable species we would be fined for the retone to kill them, but the federal govt can import gizzard shad to Powell and now they praise them (go figure)

Where did they try to plant wipers in Southern Utah?

I still think they can try other species in other waters instead of putting all these exotic hybrid trout in the waters all that is a experiment why can't they experiment with other species?

Not to stir the pot but define a expert? I already told you I like our bio's heck I use to home teach one but there is nothing wrong with trying something new, they did it with hybrid trout why don't they do it with other species? does that make a expert? I don't know where you was at in Or. but I had a bro-in-law that lived there many years and with-in 1.5 hrs any direction from his house was different species, yea I would like to see that here will it ever happen? maybe not but I guarentee ya I aren't going to stop trying. We was told the same thing about wild turkeys that we could never be at a point we are now I sure am glad Floyd Coles a retired Bio didn't listen to experts because we wouldn't have the opportunities we have now for turkeys. And thats just one example
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[Xman]

I would honestly havet o say it is demand. The cost to plant and manage a certain kind of fish, if it is possilbe, compared to the turnaround of people fishing that fishery and the revenue that would bring in for doing the project. My response would be if you really want to catch certain types of fish I would move. Utah isnt the place for walleye obviously and the bass fishing is moderate at best compared to the states that thrive on these species.

For me I believe the state has done a great job just to bring the opportunity to us to catch these type of fish. Given lets say 50 years ago how many walleye could someone catch in Utah? Or bass for that matter? Without driving to the specific areas that they existed. That could mean a awfully long drive for alot of people. I believe because of convenience us as fisherman tend to take certain opportunities for granted. And to think if we were born, if you will, at any othe given time in history these opportunities did not exist. So i feel fortunate to catch or have a chance to catch a walleye in this STATE rather than having to go to Manitoba or Wisconsin to do so.
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[smallmouthchaser]

I've recently registered as a user on the site and I'd like to say how much I like the site and the info given on it.

Lake Powell is a good place to catch walleye and smallmouth bass down south. This is the perfect time of year to do it. In the past, I've also fished Quail and Gunlock for largemouth bass when I visited my grandma down there. But, I do agree with the assessment that there's not a ton of places to walleye fish down there. However, the fish and game is aware of what we want, and the bottom line is that there's very few people who like to chase walleye in this state. If they only knew the challenge and fun that walleye are to catch. I sympathize with you, SUDH. Go try Powell. Hite is the area that I've had the best success fishing for walleye. I've caught several in the four or five pound range down there.

[southernman]

good to see you sm chaser, welcome to the community! I look forward to reading your posts . . . good info too . . .

we are bumming in southern utah because quail creek is so low theyre not stocking it . . . both enterprise lakes are void of fish, both sand cove reservoirs are dead and drained, newcastle is a gravel pit, minersville is a mud hole, they lie to us now about stocking baker dam res, ect ect . . . we're ready to get into the high country where theres some water and fish, im telling ya . . .

i say stick walleyes in one of the enterprise res if they've got a chance . . .

sm
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[SoUtDuckHntr]

I honestly appreciate everyone response to this I are not trying to start a argument, I just wanted to see everyones opinion.

I agree we have a wonderful fisheriesr around here and it is night and day different than when I moved here 37 years ago. Some for good others for bad.

Maybe I'm selfish and want what people have up north without having to move, or travel three plus hrs to do it.[sly]
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[wiperhunter2]

It sounds like Sand Hollow will be a good lake to fish for bass, if it ever fills but I wonder if they have considered putting walleye in it. WH2
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[southernman]

do walleye prey on fingerling trout, if they are present in the same system?

thanks!



sm
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[SoUtDuckHntr]

They can't put such a predatious fish like walleye in any water that runs into the virgin river, or is fed by the virgin river because of the Virgin River Chub. I guess large mouth bass aren't a predator fish?

I think they would also feed on fingerling trout , but these other waters up north have trout in them don;t they?.

I wouldn't mind Enterprise or even NewCastle as a test plot for walleye or even perch I don't think we could put walleye in Sand Cove just because of what water feeds it.

Here is another thought how hard do you think it would be to net perch at Fish Lake and transport them to Yuba? I know they would have a percent die, but would it be feasable to try that since they lost there perch population. Plus help Fish Lake out on the population stunted perch

These are answers I have never had responded to me even though I have asked.
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[wiperhunter2]

Walleye love little trout, I've heard that when they plant fingerling trout in Deer creek, it is like ringing the dinner bell for walleye.
SUDH, they have transplanted fish like you are talking about before, so yes they can do it, but the question is, would they. After they do the dam repairs at Yuba this fall, they will be doing something like that, I hope. WH2
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[MountainMan]

I must say x-man, you are very true. Everyone around here (downsouth) fly fishes, so who has time to catch bass? I love catching bass myself, and would like more lakes with them, but most people are satisfied with Quail and Gunlock. Go figure.
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[hedgesd]

Sand hollow has already been stocked with Largemouth bass and blue gill. If anybody watched Doug Miller you would know that. The lake is open to recreational boating but the fishing will not be open til 2004. As far as the water level it's up to conservation levels which is more then I can say for Quail.

Walleye are very hard to manage. Consider the 10 year cycle that Yuba goes thru. The only lake that could be considered for walleye would be Piute and that because the Sevier River runs into Yuba.

Johnson Resevoirs tiger muskie didn't take because of the low water quality. They did migrate into Fish lake, hopefully they don't damage this fishery.

SOUTHERNMAN that was some harsh words for somebody that doesn't live in Utah but considering the major drought Southern Utah is in, it's basically true.

Retenone is expensive for the DWR to use and if everybody remembers how big the project was at Strawberry. The DWR uses retenone to kill of "trash fish" (chubs and shiners) not forage fish.

Everybody think about the last time hooking into a Utah chub and getting mad about this trash fish. Now think about where it came from and why it's all over Utah.

The utah chub is from the virgin river drainage but fisherman transplanted it other places in utah thinking more food or whatever but now it's the main reason for killing of lakes. The other reason is the Golden Shiner from Nevada and transplanted by fisherman also.

Utah should charge Nevada for the Shiner breeding program in Southern Utah.
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[southernman]

I keep reading about golden shiners and nevada - well where would one get golden shiners? i''ve never seen them for sale in nevada... that and its at least a 3 hr drive if you caught them live . . . i think ton p says that once and the rest of you guys chime in . . whaddya think there's a stand by the highway that says "get your golden shiners here" !!! hahaha

its so easy to blame the other guy for a screwed up lake . .

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[SoUtDuckHntr]

The Utah Chub didn't just come from Virgin River, it is native to the whole Great Basin Drainage incompassing Id,Wy,Ut,Nv, gosh if it was only native to Virgin River we could be blaming the Washington County folks for transplanting instead of Nevada.[crazy]
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[IceFishingGod]

I think it's because allyouall talk funny.

IFG