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i have litterally no confidence in circle hooks... therefore i never use them... i have always really enjoyed putting the hammer down on the cats .... but i miss 1 in 3 hooksets when using large baits...
have any of my fellow catters had a better hooking ratio with circle hooks verses baitholders or octopus hooks???
and also is it legal to use cut talapia for bait??? just curious....
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I really like the Owner mosquito hooks. Very sharp, good hook-up rate. I do use circle hooks. The thing for me is to treat them like a drop-shot rig. You can't put a big hook set on them, you have to let them tigthen up the slack and then just reel hard. My favorite thing about them is they almost always hook up in the corner of the mouth, easy release.
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ok but which style of circle hooks do you prefer?? i have seen several styles out there and have only tried one....
also has anyone tried the " whisker sticker" line of cattin hooks??? i havent had the opportunity to try em yet.... if you have did you like em???
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Try using octopus hooks they have helped my kids hook ratio by a ton.You have to know how to use circle hooks they are good but you do lose a lot of fish if you are not used to them.
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I also like octopus hooks for Cats. They provide me a very good hook up ratio, about 85-90%
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I use the Gamakatsu octopus circle hooks or Owner circle hooks the most. Matsuo also makes good hooks.
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i love the gamakatsu octopus hooks ... but i hear alot of talk on other catfishing boards abou the circle hooks.. and people swear the hook 99 percent of the cats that bite... i went out and bought some of th matzuo circle hooks in 0/1... .
from what i have been told almost everybite the cat hooks its self... i guess i just havent had the confidence to fish em.....
this weekend thats all im going to take with me is a few different sizes of circle hooks.. i will post back and give my hook setting results..
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I think that talapia is not a game fish. So I would think that it is fair game. Let us know how it works.
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Those Tilapia are georgeous african cichlids! MURDERER! Cichlids are pets! Not bait! lol j/k
Non-game fish for Utah. Good to go. Dunno if it'd work as well as sucker or chub meat, but I guess I've heard of different things being used and working.
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here is a hook that i use very effectively with a minnow,(don't know if you are in need of a good minnow hook) takes alot longer for those small ones (on the bear) to tear your minnow off so you actually get some soak time and when a bigger one picks it up and gets it in its mouth its all over with. If you are not familiar with it, it is a 2 piece hook and you just tie the connecting piece on to your line and you can remove the hook part. what i like about these is you can have 10-15 minnows pre-baited (exspecially at night) and have little down time setting up another minnow when you deeply hook a fish. just my 2 cents.
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[#008000]Hey Utcatman,[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]Here's my take on it:[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]I use 3 kinds of hooks depending on a number of factors.[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]1. wide gap/octopus hooks. If you like to set the hook, these are a good choice. One reason some folks miss some of those hook-ups is the way they bait the hook. You need to leave a good space between the hook point and the shank exposed.[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000][inline p039250ii02.jpg][/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]2. circle hooks. On these hooks, it is better to not set the hook. Let the fish do it. The design of the circle hook is such that the action of the fish loading the rod is what starts the hook set, and picking up the rod and reeling in completes the hook up - after the weight of the fish is felt on the rod, you can set the hook (you don't need to do it too much or too hard). Sometimes, when folks don't have real good success with circle hooks, it is because they are trying to set the hook too soon. When they do that, often the just pull the hook out of the fishes mouth before it can do what it was designed to do.[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[inline p030840ii04.jpg]
[#008000]3. kahle hooks. These hooks are kind of a combination of the first two hooks I just mentioned. They can be self setting if allowed to be, or a person can actually set the hook themselves.[/#008000]
[#008000][inline s7_320306_imageset_01.jpg] [/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]Most often, I use either circle or kahle - with kahle being the more common of the 2. Nevertheless, I can't emphsize enough, that how the hook is baited has a lot to do with missing a lot of fish. All three hooks need to have a real good space between the hook point and the hook shank after the bait is placed on the hook. Too often, with incorrect placement or too small of a gap, the bait interfers with the hook point and the action of tension of the hook will drive the hook point into the bait rather than take hold in the fishes mouth. [/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]Also, the timeing of the hookset can result in a gut hooked fish. When the fish takes the bait you want to reel down until you feel the weight of the fish (not before and not after the fish is rigorously shaking it head) then set the hook.[/#008000]
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UTCatman.... If you have read what Fishound just gave you, he is exactly right. I cannot remember if I have ever missed hooking a cat that was big enough to take the bait in its mouth. The Circle C is designed for the cat to hook him self. The Carolina rig is especially dominant for this type of hook.
I quote "
If you haven t tried the Carolina Rig before, you don t know what you are missing. You are able to cover water quickly with this technique and you are able also to fish it slow. You can fish it very shallow or as deep as you need to. There are a variety of baits to use with the Carolina Rig and they will allow you to fish to what ever mood the fish are in. Bigger baits with rolling curly tails and body appendages are great for the quick and aggressive bites. As opposed to the subtler 3-5 inch finesse baits for the very finicky fish. Whatever the mood is or whatever the structure you are fishing, you should always have one rod ready with the Carolina Rig. "
[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/articles/fishing/freshwater/kevin_dahlke_001.html"]http://www.bigfishtackle.com/articles/fishing/freshwater/kevin_dahlke_001.html[/url]
When using the Circle C, Set the rod so that the cat can take off with without snapping your line. Just make sure the drag is set correctly.
Good Luck!!
[quote Fishhound][#008000]Hey Utcatman,[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]Here's my take on it:[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]I use 3 kinds of hooks depending on a number of factors.[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]1. wide gap/octopus hooks. If you like to set the hook, these are a good choice. One reason some folks miss some of those hook-ups is the way they bait the hook. You need to leave a good space between the hook point and the shank exposed.[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]2. circle hooks. On these hooks, it is better to not set the hook. Let the fish do it. The design of the circle hook is such that the action of the fish loading the rod is what starts the hook set, and picking up the rod and reeling in completes the hook up - after the weight of the fish is felt on the rod, you can set the hook (you don't need to do it too much or too hard). Sometimes, when folks don't have real good success with circle hooks, it is because they are trying to set the hook too soon. When they do that, often the just pull the hook out of the fishes mouth before it can do what it was designed to do.[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]3. kahle hooks. These hooks are kind of a combination of the first two hooks I just mentioned. They can be self setting if allowed to be, or a person can actually set the hook themselves.[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]Most often, I use either circle or kahle - with kahle being the more common of the 2. Nevertheless, I can't emphsize enough, that how the hook is baited has a lot to do with missing a lot of fish. All three hooks need to have a real good space between the hook point and the hook shank after the bait is placed on the hook. Too often, with incorrect placement or too small of a gap, the bait interfers with the hook point and the action of tension of the hook will drive the hook point into the bait rather than take hold in the fishes mouth. [/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]Also, the timeing of the hookset can result in a gut hooked fish. When the fish takes the bait you want to reel down until you feel the weight of the fish (not before and not after the fish is rigorously shaking it head) then set the hook.[/#008000][/quote]
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[#008000]For an example of the carolina rig mentioned by Catfishgitter, here are some of the Carolina style rigs I use depending on conditions.
[/#008000]
[#008000]
River Rigs (moving or current):
1. Pyramid inline sinker, bead (to protect the knot), (uni knot) swivel, (palomar knotted leader), snelled circle hook.
2. Flat current sinker on inline sacrificial snap swivel, bead, (reverse clinch knot) swivel, (palomar knotted leader), palomar knotted straight shank kahle hook.
3. Inline No-Roll current sinker on main line (no leader), snelled circle hook. This is for very fast current and or heavy cover in moving water. Bead is optional as snelled knot is protected by the up (or down) turned hook eye.
4. Inline No-Roll sinker, bead, (Centauri knot) swivel, (palomar knotted leader), snelled wide gap octopus hook.
[/#008000][#008000][inline "River rigs.JPG"]
[/#008000]
[#008000]
Lake rigs:
1. Inline bell sinker, bead, (improved clinch knot) swivel, (palomar knotted leader), snelled circle hook.
2. Bank sinker on inline sacrificial snap swivel, bead, (fisherman's clinch knot) swivel, (palomar knotted leader), palomar knotted straight shank kahle hook.
3. Inline egg sinker on main line (no leader), palomar knotted kahle hook. This is for heavy cover.
4. Inline heavier egg sinker (for windier conditions), bead, (Reverse clinch knot) swivel, (palomar knotted short leader for moderate cover in wind), snelled wide gap octopus hook.
[/#008000][#008000][inline "Lake rigs.JPG"]
[/#008000][#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]
[/#008000][#008000]Sacrificial rigs.[/#008000]
[#008000]1. Inline swivel on mainline, (clinch knotted light pound test breakaway leader, clinch knotted flat sinker. Bead, (palomar knot) swivel, (palomar knotted heavier test pound leader), snelled circle hook.[/#008000]
[#008000]2. Light weight snap swivel on main line. Hook snap swivel on rubber band wrapped stone. Snelled wide gapped circle hook on main line (no leader).[/#008000]
[#008000][inline "Sacrificial rigs.JPG"]
[/#008000][#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]
General rules of thumb:
A. Round sinkers for calm water, flat sinkers (or pyramid) for moving water.
B. Bead to protect the knot from impact with sinker. A bead can be optional when using a snelled knot on an up or down turned hook eye as the eye of the hook itself will protect the knot from imact with the sinker.
C. Knots differ according to circumstances (each knot has its own strengths and characteristics).
D. Leader length (or no leader at all) is determined mostly by cover or current conditions.
E. Choice of knot for hook is generally determined by whether hook has up (or down) turned eye or if the eye is inline with the shank. Each knot has pulling characteristics and I try to match the knot with the pulling characteristics of the hook eye itself. [/#008000]
[#008000]F. Sacrificial rigs are used for extreme cover, if I don't have the right stuff available at the time, or if the likelyhood of loosing the sinker part of the rig is very high (i.e. long casts to heavy cover in heavy current or heavy wind.
[/#008000]
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#4 of the Lake Rigs is my favorite[sly]. It never fails me!!![cool]
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This thread is very fortuitous, (thanks for the info friends) as I went just last weekend and my experience with the circle hooks was disappointing. (It's all I've ever tried, being new to cat fishing.) If I had caught every fish that took our bait, and even drug away our lines, my boys and I would have come home with 60+ fish. (I had plenty of hook showing BTW.)
We can't complain at landing 20, but it was quite frustrating as we tried different tactics, while hoping the fish would "hook himself..." but got off again and again. We had the most luck to do just what Fishhound suggested though. I still wasn't impressed with those results.
So, Sportsman's recommended the octopus hook to try next time. Now, I guess it's back to the store to try the kahle hooks! [  ]
Question about setting the hook: " [#008000]When the fish takes the bait you want to reel down until you feel the weight of the fish (not before and not after the fish is rigorously shaking it head) then set the hook.[/#008000]"
I'm not clear on what the term "reel down" means, please explain? [blush]
My next question is knots. I'd LOVE an explanation as to why you used one knot over another. [#008000] "Each knot has pulling characteristics and I try to match the knot with the pulling characteristics of the hook eye itself. " [/#008000]HEEELP!!! [  ]
That's important to me to know, because I like to have two hooks. (Although I loose a few due to tangling, two hooks are better than one I suppose, and sometimes I DO catch two fish at a time!) However, if a line breaks, it's at the top knot - every time. (I've typically used a "dropper loop," but I've been told to try a Palomar.) Yes? No?
The last question is on that bead to protect the knot. If the bead is hit by the sinker, I don't understand how that helps?
OK, OK I know, I'll just show up at the next catfest. I'll trust you sages to decide where, just not on a Sunday please.
Rog
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i use all of those rigs with octopus hoooks. ... and i have awesome success.... but i am really curious about the circle hooks.....
i will just have too give em a shot.,,, thank you all for your input... i appreciate it very much....
oh by the way i was asking about the talapia because tuesday night in that voracious storm we had up here i made a trip to the bird refuge... on the way i stopped to get some bait and i had no carp so i bought a 2 lb talapia for $ 2.00 needless to say 3 hours later i had an 11lb and a 6 lb cat caught and released as well as a hand full of cookie cutter cats......all caught on cut talapia ,....[crazy][ ][cool][cool][cool]
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I'm BIG sushi fan, and Tilapia, has also been called Red Snapper, or Izumi Dai - which I buy quite cheap at the Asian markets, a half a fish for less than 3 bucks.
A salesman at Sportsman's said the best bait is white bass - if that's the case, I would wonder if Tilapia would be VERY similar in my book.
I should'a mentioned that we had a lot of folk coming up to tell me that boated they were using shrimp and worms, but since we landed more than any with sucker meat (thanks Catfishgitter for the tip) than anyone else - that's my choice so far! [ ]
Speaking of sushi, I also remember a thread with people using octopus! Whatever works! [ ]
Rog
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[#008000]By "Reel down" I meant; Reel in whatever slack there may be in the line until you feel the weight of the fish. [/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]Make sense ?[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]As far as the knot and the hook question goes:[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]When ever I use a hook with an up or down turned eye, I snell the hook. A snell knot pulls straight on and parallel to the shank of the hook - it is also the strongest and most secure hook knot. With a little practice, it is also a very fast knot to tie.[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]When I use a straight shank hook, the knot will vary according to a number of things (to numerous to list here), but basically, I use a knot that will pull straight from the loop that is attached to the hook eye - for example: the palomar, clinch, reverse clinch, uni knot and many others have a loop formed on the eye of the hook.[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]If you are using a two hook set up (I'll assume you mean two hooks inline as in a seeker rig), you would do better to not use a dropper loop as it does create a weak pinch point in the knot. That is probably why your rig fails at the upper most hook connection. Dropper loops do have advantages - that particular rig would not be one of them. [/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]Depending on the hook type, I would use a palomar knot (or any other that provides a good strong tag end while maintaining knot integrity), or, one of the many snell knots (quick snell, common snell, uni snell, single wrap snell, sliding snell, or the knotless knot snell) - with the quick snell, sliding snell and knotless knot snell being reserved for specific situations.[/#008000]
[#008000][/#008000]
[#008000]Come to the Catfest or the next Fishing 101 seminar - its kind of hard to explain some things with out a show and tell.[/#008000]
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