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[cool][#0000ff]There has been some talk of shipping Utah Lake carp to Iraq, as part of the Utah Lake "makeover" program. But, it seems like the rising costs of fuel are making even that idea too costly. Here is an article that appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune today.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff](Maybe we can just tuck a few thousand into the next box we send to Kochanut and the boys.)[/#0000ff]
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Utah Lake
Official: Harvesting carp not profitable
[url "mailto:dmeyers@sltrib.com?subject=Salt Lake Tribune: Official: Harvesting carp not profitable"]By Donald W. Meyers
The Salt Lake Tribune[/url]
Article Last Updated: 06/27/2008 12:42:48 AM MDT
PROVO - While there is worldwide demand for carp, commercial fishermen would likely need a financial incentive to harvest the fish from Utah Lake, a water official said Thursday.
Michael D. Mills, June Sucker recovery program coordinator for the Central Utah Water Conservancy District, delivered that message Thursday to the Utah Lake Commission. He said the state likely would have to offer a subsidy to get people to come and remove the invasive fish in large enough quantities to give the June sucker a fighting chance at recovery.
The reason: supply and demand, combined with high fuel prices.
Taking all the the carp from the freshwater lake "would exceed the national demand," Mills said, thus making the harvest unprofitable.
While there is a thriving international carp market - the fish sells for as much as $4 a pound in Iraq, where it is considered a staple - increased fuel costs make that arrangement prohibitive, Mills said.
The state did receive an inquiry from a humanitarian group, MN Direct Trade. It wants to harvest carp for shipment to Iraq. The group was having trouble lining up investors, Mills said.
The presence in Utah Lake of a large carp population threatens the June sucker, which is only found there. Carp destroys the native fish's habitat and the vegetation that reduces silt and algae in the lake, according to Rick Cox, project manager for San Francisco-based URS Corp.
His company is drafting a new lake master plan.
Cox said Utah Lake is still a gem worth preserving, noting that it's not as badly polluted as other bodies of water.
"If this lake were in Texas, you would have million-dollar homes built around it," he said.
dmeyers@sltrib.com
What's next:
* Utah Lake consultants and lake commissioners have scheduled a July 9 public workshop on the lake's master plan. The draft document is expected to be completed by November.
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One thing they could do is take as many June suckers out and put them in another lake or pond and poisson the lake, with all the money they spend on the studies and plans they are doing...[crazy][frown]
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[cool][#0000ff]But...but...but Cliff...what about the bass?[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I know, train them in martial arts and let them kung fu the crap out of the carp.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]As you are probably aware, Utah Lake is far too large to poison. It would double the national debt. It would also not work for long because there would be enough carp hiding in the tributaries to totally infest the lake again within a few years.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]They are already trying to establish other populations of the junies. Mona Reservoir and Red Butte have both received plantings of the pucker mouth darlings. Haven't heard how they are doing, but couldn't be any worse than Utah Lake.[/#0000ff]
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The amount of rotenone it would take to poison a lake the size of utah lake would cost far more than you realize and would only be a very temporary fix due to the fact that there is no way to get all of the carp and they would be back in force all to soon. plus it would kill all of the other fish species too and they would be reluctant to put all those nice predatory fish we all love to catch back in there. I really hope they can get the carp down 75% like they are planning because it will turn the entire ecosystem around due to the fact that the carp are a keystone species in that ecosystem. I hope to see something start to happen soon,
Jed
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There was an article about this on KSL.com too. There is something that confuses me about this whole idea to use the carp in UL. Why is it that the DWR has issued a health warning about the carp, and it is bad for us to eat, but it is okay to poison the Iraqis with it, or whoever it goes to? If I remember right, there was a commercial fisherman that went out of business when the news of the PCBs first came out. He was netting the carp to sell for human consumption(fish sticks) and cat food. If that guy went out of business when he lost his customers because the fish were no good, why does anybody think there is a market for those same carp now? Or, why should we be shipping the carp off to anybody else? That seems just plain wrong. What changed? And is anybody at the DWR or health department paying attention? Seems weird to me. Or do I have the whole thing wrong. Help me out here...
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[cool][#0000ff]Don't blame DWR. They get blamed for enough.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There are several governmental agencies involved in setting standards for human consumption. The EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) and the FDA (Food and Drug Administration) are the main groups that test water, soil, air and foods to see if there are nasty things that we should not ingest. But, they have different standards. And if one sets its maximum safe limit at "X", and the other one sets it at "Y", you can have fish ruled unsafe for human consumption by local agencies and okay for harvest and sale nationally or internationally by the other groups.
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[#0000ff]A good example is tuna fish. One agency says it has an unsafe level of mercury and should not be eaten. But, the agency that regulates commercial harvest and sale sets the standard much higher, so that the commercial fishing fleets can stay in business. Can you say lobbying, bribes or payola?[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The PCB report did shut down the Loy Family carping business. It had been operating for generations and was the only carp-killing method on Utah lake. Now we have nothing but studies and conversation. "No...it is your job." "No, it's yours." In the meantime the carp keep doin' what carp do...reproducing and destroying the habitat for all the other fish. If we wait long enough, they will be all that is left and we can just drain the lake and try to stay upwind of the stink for a couple of years.
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you don't have the idea wrong, but from what I understand the pcb levels are higher than the fda likes to see but the standards are supposedly very conservative and not much of an issue. From what I understand other markets are not as strict and don't see the pcb levels in Utah lake carp to be high enough to warrant regulation. Even now you can still eat the carp you are just not suposed to eat more than 5 oz per month i believe.
Jed
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I know what your saying....But all the money down the drain (or in the great? salt lake)...[  ][crazy]
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Thanks for the replies. I figured that was how it was. My last question is, if the carp end up in Iraq, will there be a warning label pinned to them about the 4oz per month limit? (that is a joke, he he)
PS - I wasn't blaming the DWR. I support them fully. I was trying to illustrate the contradiction. The DWR says 'don't eat the fish' and then we have a bunch of people trying feed them to someone else, and not a word from any government agency about the danger. Just sort of ironic to me...
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They just need to drain the whole lake let all the infested fish die and let the sun kill the pcbs in the ground .Its going to take something extreme to fix utah lake.
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I went to some of the meetings last year (or was it the year before?) when they were starting the process of creating the new Utah Lake Commission. I recall the commercial fisherman (was it Bill Loy?) saying something like the PCB levels didn't exceed the federal standard, but once word got out about the PCBs, buyers wouldn't buy the fish anymore. He was selling a lot of the meat to Midwestern buyers. They said there was a place in Illinois, I think it was, that was PROUD to sell Utah Lake carp, and they would put a sign out front whenever they had a shipment of it. People liked it. But they didn't want it anymore after the PCB thing was reported.
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Heck with Iraq...ship them to China. They try to poison us, so we might as well return the favor with the PCB laden bugle mouths!
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I second that!!!! [ ]
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I don't know much about this but I have thought about the use of huge troll nets to gather up carp. One large "vessel" on Utah Lake operating for a while may over time decrease their numbers, at leat I think. Tell me though, do you know if this has been tried in the past or if it is reliable and cost effetive? I think it has to cost much less than the retone treatment.
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[cool][#0000ff]The underlying problem, no matter what eradication process is implemented, is that Utah Lake covers a very large area and the carp are numerous throughout the whole lake.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Any creative person can think up ways to remove carp. And, most of them will work...temporarily. But, short of draining or treating the whole lake and all its tributaries, there is no possible way to completely rid the lake of carp. Also, anything except complete extermination would only be a temporary fix. THEY'LL BE BACK.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There is also the question of cost. Who is supposed to pay for the enormous expense of ANY proposed cleanup program? The size and complexity involved with even the cheapest solution will cost bajillions of dollars...and might as well not be spent if it is not going to work completely.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]A vast netting project WOULD remove vast quantities of carp...and other "bycatch" species. But, short of running a net across the whole lake at the same time, it would not be a complete success. Carp would remain all over the parts of the lake not being netted (and in unreachable marshes and tributaries) and would continue to reproduce in their millions. It would be a diminishing catch, as the numbers were reduced, but at some point it would be discontinued and the numbers would explode again.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]We are likely to hear of dozens of schemes and ideas, but may never see anything done that proves to be more than marginally effective. No matter what is proposed, there will be opponents...and budget concerns. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]What we really need is a time machine to allow somebody to go back and blow up the train that brought the carp to Utah in the first place.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff] [#000000]" [/#000000] What we really need is a time machine to allow somebody to go back and blow up the train that brought the carp to Utah in the first place.[/#0000ff] "
I am definitely all for that, 100%. [ ]
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