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Hi, I've been fishing for about 15 years now but have yet to flyfish. I would like to start this coming summer and am in the process of buying a float tube, rod, etc. I basically have it narrowed down to the "Outcast Fish Cat 4" float tube, "Creek Company ODC 420" float tube, and the "Creek Company ODC 616" float tube/pontoon hybrid (a friend of mine has one he's willing to sell me).
Personally, I think I'd prefer to be sitting out of the water so the ODC 420 (on the Creek Company website it says "Thick foam seat keeps you comfortable and out of the water while increasing floatation"), or ODC 616 seem like the best choices... With the ODC, however, I'm wondering if I wouldn't be sitting too high up (thus making propulsion difficult)... Does anyone have any experience with this tube/pontoon that they are willing to share??
Can anyone (preferably around my weight) that has used a Fish Cat 4, or ODC 420, let me know how deep in the water you end up sitting?? I'm guessing you can't get away with just hip waders...
Thanks,
Rob
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Welcome Zabber you are at the right place for questions. You didn't give your weight I don't think, but I am around 300, big huh? and I use a pontoon and there isn't any problem with getting around with fins even though the wind will work you pretty hard sometimes. You are deffinetly out of the water which I like.
I have a fish cat but havent used it yet, I got it for where the toon would be to hard to use, but I used to use a float tube all the time and loved it, so i am sure the fish cat will be excellent as they move around much better than my U-boat float tube did.
Hope this helps some, but welcome
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[quote Zabber]Hi, I've been fishing for about 15 years now but have yet to flyfish. I would like to start this coming summer and am in the process of buying a float tube, rod, etc. I basically have it narrowed down to the "Outcast Fish Cat 4" float tube, "Creek Company ODC 420" float tube, and the "Creek Company ODC 616" float tube/pontoon hybrid (a friend of mine has one he's willing to sell me).
Personally, I think I'd prefer to be sitting out of the water so the ODC 420 (on the Creek Company website it says "Thick foam seat keeps you comfortable and out of the water while increasing floatation"), or ODC 616 seem like the best choices...If the 616 is from Cabellas recent $100 sale, it has no flyfishinng apron and the pontoons are sewn nylon with bladders made of air mattress material, which I consider low quality. Frame is thin metal and might not hold to heavy loads or rough use. Very stable, slow due to lack of streamline shape. Compact, will fit inside a small hatchback inflated if one of the pontoons is removed. I replaced the pontoons with versa vessel 6', but just about any pontoons could be adapted with ratchet strap fastners. With the ODC, however, I'm wondering if I wouldn't be sitting too high up (thus making propulsion difficult)... I'm 6'1" 180 and sit about 3" above flat water unloaded, which is too low for me so I added a 2" spacer so waves don't get me wet, since I don't use waders. If you have long legs, should have no problem with propulsion. Does anyone have any experience with this tube/pontoon that they are willing to share??
Can anyone (preferably around my weight) that has used a Fish Cat 4, or ODC 420, let me know how deep in the water you end up sitting?? I'm guessing you can't get away with just hip waders...
Thanks,
Rob[/quot
Hope this helps.
Pon
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I fish out of the 420 and weigh 215 and six feet tall. My butt gets wet if I'm not using waders so your right about hip waders not working. I go everywhere much faster and easier in the 420 then I ever did in my U shaped tube.
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Hey guys, thanks for all the replies, and sorry about not posting my weight there (I typed it in but must have deleted it for some reason)... Anyways, I'm about 6'2" and 185 lbs, so Pon's reply definately gives me an idea of how the 616 would be like on the water for me (thanks Pon!)... Apparently it was purchased from an Army & Navy but I think they were probably all the same...
I barely even noticed that it doesn't have the bib (which, come to think of it, seems like it would be a pretty convenient thing to have -- but which I'm sure I could put together myself with a bit of material)... As far as "slow due to lack of streamline shape" that surprises me: I figured that the pontoons, 'collectively,' would cut through the water better than a Fish Cat/ODC 420 (one of the reasons I was considering this 'toon in the first place  )...
I'm was looking at the Fish Cat 4 today again and it looks SUPER comfy (the "tape measure" on the fishing bib is definately a nice addition as well)...
As of right now I'm thinking I'll just pick up the 616 (despite the lower quality material), buy myself a rod/reel combo, etc. with the $100 I'd save, treat it as an "intro. 'toon" and take it from there (keeping in mind the fabric isn't too durable)... If I ever get the hang of the sport maybe I'll upgrade to one of those "ultra light" tubes and try some hike-ins...
Thanks again for all your replies,
Rob
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As of right now I'm thinking I'll just pick up the 616 (despite the lower quality material), buy myself a rod/reel combo, etc. with the $100 I'd save, treat it as an "intro. 'toon" and take it from there (keeping in mind the fabric isn't too durable)... If I ever get the hang of the sport maybe I'll upgrade to one of those "ultra light" tubes and try some hike-ins...
Just remember, you are talking about out in a lake....water all around and probably over your head.
I would think QUALITY might be something you would consider HI on the list.
You definitely want to LIVE to make that next choice.
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The pontoon valves on the ODC 616 are of an older design used with disposable rafts that is difficult to work with. There are two pieces which means inflation to the proper pressure is more critical and also more difficult to achieve. I did not get an adapter that would fit my electric or manual pumps, so I had to improvise with a small piece of large latex tubing to make the fit. It is better to be slightly underinflated with this type as you will have to guess at pressure by pressing on the pontoon surface. Only an expensive and rare in line guage would work and you would want to be at maybe 1.5 lbs pressure. One of the units came with a rapidly leaking tube due to non uniform thickness of the bladder, so it may be better to purchase the demo unit if you can't return. Maybe find out how your friend goes about the inflation process.
There may be a flyshop in your extended area that rents kickboats. That's the way I started.
Good luck.
Pon
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Thanks guys.
Again, I appreciate the replies.
As far as quality goes, it's not that I'm not concerned, it's just that I don't plan on abusing whatever watercraft I own so I figure that even if it was made out of "rubber raft" material it would still last me a few years without any problems... I'm a decent swimmer, and only really plan on fishing smaller lakes, so I figure if worse came to worst I could always just "abandon ship" and swim back to shore... I've got a life vest as well and, while I might not wear it, I'd probably strap it to the back of whatever watercraft I end up using just in case something did happen to the watercraft I was in...
Thanks for the heads up about those rentals Pon... The main fly shop in my area (the one I would probably end up buying a tube/'toon from) does, in fact, offer equipment rentals (and, to top it off, credits the rental price toward the purchase price, if you decide you want to buy the item in the end)...
They sell the Outcast Fishcat Streamer for about $430 ([url "http://www.outcastboats.com/outcast/products/default.aspx?id=26"]http://www.outcastboats.com/outcast/products/default.aspx?id=26[/url]), which is a little more than I'd like to pay, but maybe I'll try it out and just spend the extra cash on something that'll last for 10 or 20 years...
Thanks again, and I'll let you know how it works out,
Rob
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Here's another pontoon kick boat I stumbled across in the local classifieds... I think it's an Outcast but I couldn't find it on their website... Seems like the 'toon kickboat concept never really caught on
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Thats the Discovery Trekker which we reviewed on 3-24-09 last post in this section. You can scroll down and find what comments some of us had.
Pon[quote Zabber]Here's another pontoon kick boat I stumbled across in the local classifieds... I think it's an Outcast but I couldn't find it on their website... Seems like the 'toon kickboat concept never really caught on [/quote]
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I've owned the ODC 420 and the Fish Cat 4. If you're choosing a tube and not the hybrid, the Fish Cat is a better choice in my opinion. Both tubes are almost the same as far as design but the Fish Cat seems to have a thicker bladder system. You will need waders in both because the seat gets wet even though they're foam. Both tubes are super comfortable to fish from and getting around is very easy.
I'm 6'1" and 200 lbs.
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Unless you are fishing rivers or large lakes where you need to go a long ways on the water, I reccomend the fishcat! I am going on my fourth or fifth year in mine and really think they work great for most of the lakes I fish.
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Hi guys,
Thanks for all the responses again. I ended up buying the hybrid, just 'cause it cost $100 CAD (vs. the Fish Cat, which was going for $200)... It was basically the cheapest, non-"inner tube type" floatation device I could get right now, which I figure should serve as a good intro. boat...
The fly shop in my area only rents the round tubes (for $20), and pontoons ($50), so I figured that by the time I tried both of them out I would have already have this one paid for (if it doesn't live up to my expectations, which it shouldn't (based on Pon's post), I can always post it up on craigslist.com and maybe recoup some of what I spent)...
I'm going on a lake-fishing trip from the 24th-26th so I'll probably take it for it's first wet run that weekend (but maybe I'll even try it out next weekend if it the weather's nice).
I'll post up again in a couple of weeks and let you guys know how it worked out.
Cheers,
Rob
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Zabber, I hope you reconsider and WEAR that life vest on the water.
Things happen quickly out there and probability of need sounds high.
At 66, I have finally seen the light and got a Cabelas manual inflatable vest. I now WEAR it instead of storing it behind the seat.
Illinoisgiller
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Thanks for your concern Illinoisgiller  I ended up wearing the life vest at the end of the day, and will very likely continue to do so, even though I'm pretty sure I'll never really need it (since the frame would have to break in two places at the same time in order for me to fall in--likely improbable considering the thickness of the metal used to make the frame).
As far as the 'toon goes, I would say I'm fairly satisfied with it.
The propulsion is actually pretty amazing: a couple of light kicks on calm water and you're 10 or 15 feet away from where you were.
Also, sitting out of the water is nice since, at most, only half of my lower leg gets wet. This is nice because, although I have full length waders, which I used, they are "rubber," and so I can bear cold water longer with only a bit of my legs in the water. Although I wore a few layers under my waders (two pairs of wools socks, thermal underwear, and sweatpants) I found I could only stay in the water, which I'd estimate was around 5 deg C, for a couple of hours at a time (which was fine, since I found I was getting fairly tired + hungry after kicking all that time, mostly into the wind, anyways :p). However, had I been sitting in the water, I figure I would have been out of that lake in a half hour, tops, unless I was wearing neoprenes (I've never worn them, but I've read that they are great in cold water).
The only qualm I have is that when I kick I can only bring my knees up to about 30-45 degrees (0 deg being straight a knee) without splashing noisily in the water. This was kind of annoying in the evening (when the water was calm), since I could only use relatively small kicks to silently propel myself. I enjoy the peacefulness of a calm evening, but also enjoy making full knee extensions and I figure I could probably kick silently to 15 or 20 degrees if I was sitting lower to the water. For that reason, I'm thinking I might lower the seat by 3 or 4 inches, by modifying the frame a bit.
Anyways, just my "review" of this 'toon (in case anybody else is ever looking for another review)... Without actually trying the Fish Cat 4 or ODC 420 I can't really compare the two. The main fly shop around here doesn't seem to rent them, but I'll try to get my hands on one, take it for a kick, and post up a comparison.
p.s. sorry for the late post, I went fishing in this thing about a month ago but have been tied up with work (and what not) ever since.
Cheers,
Rob
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How are you able to lower the seat?
Have you considered longer flippers like scuba.
You shouldn't have to straighten your leg out in a seated position (Form an L).
Even on ruff water my flipper doesn't break surface. A little sloshing, but again that is on ruff water.
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Hi, Zab. Wonder if your hybrid is a Discovery, after all. Discovery comes preassembled and is designed so you are sitting IN the water no matter which of the 3 pontoon adjustment strap eyelets you use.There is no need to alter the frame to make adjustments on the Discovery. At least that's true for a 180# person. The only frame is the seat itself with some short extensions for the pontoons, made from light to medium guage aluminum. Maybe a good reason the wear a life jacket in case the frame is being stressed by being set to a position above the water line with the pontoons close together. Unless the person you bought it from had already shortened the adjustment straps, or you weigh considerably less than 180, you should not be above the water. When sitting at or in the water, you should have plenty of room for leg extension with the Discovery.
Hope this helps.
Pon
[quote Zabber]Thanks for your concern Illinoisgiller I ended up wearing the life vest at the end of the day, and will very likely continue to do so, even though I'm pretty sure I'll never really need it (since the frame would have to break in two places at the same time in order for me to fall in--likely improbable considering the thickness of the metal used to make the frame).
As far as the 'toon goes, I would say I'm fairly satisfied with it.
The propulsion is actually pretty amazing: a couple of light kicks on calm water and you're 10 or 15 feet away from where you were.
Also, sitting out of the water is nice since, at most, only half of my lower leg gets wet. This is nice because, although I have full length waders, which I used, they are "rubber," and so I can bear cold water longer with only a bit of my legs in the water. Although I wore a few layers under my waders (two pairs of wools socks, thermal underwear, and sweatpants) I found I could only stay in the water, which I'd estimate was around 5 deg C, for a couple of hours at a time (which was fine, since I found I was getting fairly tired + hungry after kicking all that time, mostly into the wind, anyways :p). However, had I been sitting in the water, I figure I would have been out of that lake in a half hour, tops, unless I was wearing neoprenes (I've never worn them, but I've read that they are great in cold water).
The only qualm I have is that when I kick I can only bring my knees up to about 30-45 degrees (0 deg being straight a knee) without splashing noisily in the water. This was kind of annoying in the evening (when the water was calm), since I could only use relatively small kicks to silently propel myself. I enjoy the peacefulness of a calm evening, but also enjoy making full knee extensions and I figure I could probably kick silently to 15 or 20 degrees if I was sitting lower to the water. For that reason, I'm thinking I might lower the seat by 3 or 4 inches, by modifying the frame a bit.
Anyways, just my "review" of this 'toon (in case anybody else is ever looking for another review)... Without actually trying the Fish Cat 4 or ODC 420 I can't really compare the two. The main fly shop around here doesn't seem to rent them, but I'll try to get my hands on one, take it for a kick, and post up a comparison.
p.s. sorry for the late post, I went fishing in this thing about a month ago but have been tied up with work (and what not) ever since.
Cheers,
Rob[/quote]
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Pontoon, you keep saying he is sitting in the water. He posted that he ISN'T. Infact he says he is sitting WAY out of the water.
And again, I don't know how you are kicking, but I think of it as a child on the foot in a seated position, and raising the child. Scooping! You don't need to move very far.
Or as others here, lean back and flutter like a swimmer. (I have tried it and it does work on calm water)[ ]
Pictures would help.
NOW< as far as waders.......RUBBER!!!. You were in, what like 40 degree water....that is normal here.
I don't wear Neoprene and haven't for years. I DO fish year round. If the water isn't frozen, then it is the upper 30's. Do able.
I wear BREATHABLES and I have fished in 20 degrees and been warm. The KEY WORD is BREATHABLE. You sweat, you get cold. NO COTTON under any wader as it.....you guessed it, it doesn't BREATH.
NEOPRENES are considerably cheaper though. Really suck in the summer.
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I think the answer is that he is an owner of the ODC 616 he mentions above or some other pontoon, NOT the "hybrid" Discovery. The bottom of the 616 frame clears the water by about 2 inches, but the seating position is about 4 inches above. The ODC seat only has the one fixed position. So to lower the position, you can try another seat that is thinner on the bottom, use less buoyancy by sewing up part of the existing pontoons or try smaller pontoons. The frame can also be altered to lower the position as he mentioned.
Hope this helps.
Pon
[quote flygoddess]Pontoon, you keep saying he is sitting in the water. He posted that he ISN'T. Infact he says he is sitting WAY out of the water.
And again, I don't know how you are kicking, but I think of it as a child on the foot in a seated position, and raising the child. Scooping! You don't need to move very far.
Or as others here, lean back and flutter like a swimmer. (I have tried it and it does work on calm water)[ ]
Pictures would help.
NOW< as far as waders.......RUBBER!!!. You were in, what like 40 degree water....that is normal here.
I don't wear Neoprene and haven't for years. I DO fish year round. If the water isn't frozen, then it is the upper 30's. Do able.
I wear BREATHABLES and I have fished in 20 degrees and been warm. The KEY WORD is BREATHABLE. You sweat, you get cold. NO COTTON under any wader as it.....you guessed it, it doesn't BREATH.
NEOPRENES are considerably cheaper though. Really suck in the summer.[/quote]
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Hey Pon,
I did indeed end up buying the ODC 616. I've attached a few pics below... Two are of me (stuggling to rethread the line that somehow fell back through the loops :p), one is of another guy that was with us and that wanted to try it out...
Thanks for the kicking tip flygoddess, I'll give it a shot. I always thought you were supposed to "lean back and flutter like a swimmer" (or, move your leg from bent (90 deg) to straight out (0/180 deg)) though :p...
As far as cotton goes, I thought it was breathable as well... Just that it sucks when it gets wet (e.g. when you sweat) because you get cold when it dries, or something like that... Anyways, my waders definately aren't the breathable kind, they're just the plain regular rubber kind($60 or $80 CAD at Canadian Tire (/Wal Mart))... I was looking at scuba fins and "Force Fins" but so far I've just been trying to work with what I had lying around the house to get a feel for the sport (e.g. the cheapest waders money can buy and some "flippers" that I cut up and duct taped to the bottom of the waders :p)... I might invest in a better set-up down the road but for now my ghetto outfit seems to be working half-decently.
I didn't even think about sewing up the pontoons as being an option Pon, but maybe I'll try that... I was going to cut four tubes (or so) of the frame, drill a couple of holes beside each cut, stick an approx. 3-6 in. piece of slightly-smaller-guage pipe (w/ holes drilled at each end) in each tube, and then just stick some bolts through the holes (basically just "extend" the frame so that the seat is a few inches lower), but maybe I'll try making the nylon sleeves smaller first...
Cheers,
Rob
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