Invasive species

[packfish]

Ok - here's a new thread and discussion on this.
I won't get into the economic aspect of this even if I think it's a major component to why things are going in the direction they are.
Let's start with just a few thoughts
1. Can the spread of an invasive species be halted or slowed down if only 1 of many factors be addressed ?

2. What would be your suggestion to the F&G to halt the spread?

3. Do you believe any suggestion will halt the spread ?

This is going to hit home some time here to all of us.
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[flygoddess]

[quote packfish]Ok - here's a new thread and discussion on this.
I won't get into the economic aspect of this even if I think it's a major component to why things are going in the direction they are.
Let's start with just a few thoughts
1. Can the spread of an invasive species be halted or slowed down if only 1 of many factors be addressed ?

2. What would be your suggestion to the F&G to halt the spread?

3. Do you believe any suggestion will halt the spread ?

This is going to hit home some time here to all of us.[/quote]


#1 I believe it can be slowed down and maybe micro but yes ONE thing can make a difference (like I said, maybe micro)

#2. They are biologist, not me. They know more than I do.

#3. Educate the public and enforce it, just like Whirling Disease.

Like putting bars on windows and doors to keep bad people out. If they want in bad enough, they will get in, but you have slowed them down.

You posted you were trying to make us see outside the box... well, what exactly is outside the box?

The fact that this is real and growing quickly and spread by birds, animals and so on.
I think we are all aware of this. Just like the other forums.

What special research do you have?

To think this is a scam by Simms pretty much told me what I need to know.

But FELT is proven to be a source. A good place to START!

When I say, if the bad wants in bad enough they will get in, but that works two ways. If we don't want them in bad enough they won't.



http://protectyourwaters.net/
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[mojorizing]

[quote packfish]Ok - here's a new thread and discussion on this.
I won't get into the economic aspect of this even if I think it's a major component to why things are going in the direction they are.
Let's start with just a few thoughts
1. Can the spread of an invasive species be halted or slowed down if only 1 of many factors be addressed ?

2. What would be your suggestion to the F&G to halt the spread?

3. Do you believe any suggestion will halt the spread ?

This is going to hit home some time here to all of us.[/quote]

Here's a suggestion for you.
http://www.cleanangling.org/
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[cpierce]

I know that you have to assume that the bad stuff might be anywhere, but is there a list of infected waters in the area around us?
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[jigs]

i will say that the invasivespecies stickers that i spoke so badly about before, i realy have been impressed with the amount that the f&g has done checking boats and cleaning stations. i have seen 3 or 4 things sense they came out with these that would not of been there if it were not for that money.
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[ironrod]

I too have a Biology degree-it truly IS a REAL threat...like I said before. I'm not
active in research but I can tell you that every little bit truly helps. I will have to
admit that some things cannot be stopped...but they can be SLOWED. Let's think about
diseases in humans....how small are they??? How can you truly give a vaccine to
EVERY PERSON out there...you can't and we havent, yet many diseases have been
eradicated or the spread has been SLOWED down.

My thought is do everything possible-even if you don't agree with it-or stay out of the
water!!![mad]

Fish on!![cool]
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[iliketofish]

I think I'm missunderstanding you or something, becuase it sounds like you're saying that we should just throw in the towel because we can't logistically cover all of the different vectors. If that's what your saying, I have to say i disagree with you. sure felt soles are by no means the only guilty party, I think you mentioned the other parts of the boot like the laces etc, that's nothing a hose and a bucket of bleach water can't fix, or simply letting them dry out well before using them again.
I agree that this issue will hit home with all of us, but that is just all the more reason that we all need to be proactive and help spread the word. If all that conversations like this accomplish is to motivate people to do something about the issue, then I guess we've done something []!
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[packfish]

1. I used the word Simms- should have said the industry. The fly fishing industry isn't any more ethical than any other big industry no matter how much you wish it was. Big $ is just that.

2, I'm not saying throw in the towel- I'm am saying there are those that use this for thier benefit. Every effort is a good. I have always pushed that eveyone bone up on what they do and do not take anyone's word for it- Knowledge is the key and when you quit searching your're done. I'm glad you guys have different opinions. But some of you and if it's just one are starting to do some reading and that's good and that is stepping outside your box. My wife makes me do it weekly.
A different view point, if you are willing to accept it as having just 1 iota of validity, makes everyone do that.


3. The sticker deal- again what makes my 8 ft toon and less a threat of a carrier than my 10 ft toon.

4. Even New Zealands studies admit they are making suggestions but don't know all the causes.

5. If I take my dog duck hunting in an infected lake - it retrieves ducks all day long thru weeds, etc. The invasive species gets caught in it's wirery hair- I put him in his kennel and think on the way home- Gosh that dog sure was muddy. So I stop and let him swim in Henrys to get it off- It's in that lake now- no matter how many boats get washed- it's there. Unless a predator comes about to deal with it- (Mother Nature adapating) We aren't stopping it. Whirling disease wasn't stopped nor slowed down by anything we as fisherman did to prevent it's spread. Again I clean all my gear better than most. Again- yes it's a threat and should be taken seriously.
As was Whirling Disease and The Great Lakes Zebra mussel- The Zebra mussel won't be the demise of the Great Lakes- The Gobi might but the mussel won't. The Whirling didn't wipe out Montana. I applaud whomever it was that said thay had the biology degree- I put in my first 2 years of college in Fisheries Biology until a few told me at that time the jobs weren't there- you put in the time and I bailed.

And I'm sorry that everything is underlined -didn't mean that to happen but I'm not startting over.
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[flygoddess]

Big companies, big dollars. I still don't see how this is beneficial. I am betting there was more moneys made off felt then the new rubber.
Unless you are referring to the now I have to get rid of my felt and go with rubber.
I don't think the transaction is going to be that quick and I for one am glad that Simm's public posts that they will no longer make felt after 2010.
Like I said, I am betting it is much cheaper to make the felt soles then slap on a huge mark up. I can't swear to this, just MY observation.

You keep saying to research this....well as you can read, we all are pretty up on what is going on and allot of it IS just flat out COMMON SENSE.

Okay, the research is done, now it is time to REACT! and if that starts with simple FELT SOLES...heay, one down...?# to go.
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[Bassnbob]

Yes there is a map go to [url "http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/mollusks/zebramussel/"]http://nas.er.usgs.gov/taxgroup/mollusks/zebramussel/[/url]

Closest to Idaho is Red Fleet Reservoir and Electric lake in Utah.
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[packfish]

[font "Helv"]the difference between felt soles and cheap rubber soles- not the special rubber soles being advertised is isn't close. Take a look at the cheapest wading boot with a felt sole VS the cheapest wading boot with the new rubber- not even close. Felt is cheap- the technology and R&D $$ into the rubber soles is a big.


Take a look at the Minnesota study on this. And I quote" [/font][font "Georgia"]How do you inspect everybody?" It just takes one bad apple that completely disregards what we're trying to get them to do and that's how you transfer it from one lake to another," he said. But he said if every boater does their part, the inevitable march of invasive species can be slowed. ---- Slowed but not stopped[/font]
[font "Georgia"]You aren't going to get every boater and you know it- we can't even get people to pick up their own litter.[/font]
[font "Georgia"]The push by the FF industry is no different than any other industry " going GREEN""|. They are making a killing on it at your expense. I know- I purchase millions (16) of $$ every year in my work and I know what's goes on personally. Does someone really think that recycled paper is saving the forest- it isn't period. It's a money deal . No one has come back and and shown me why the supposedly #1 and 2 transportation vessels ( boots and neos) have not been banned. [/font]
[font "Georgia"]The listed web site on Clean your equipment or what ever sells their merchansie ( T shirts , cups , hats - etc etc) - making a buck off it. Again I'm not saying that's bad- I'm just saying that it's being done and that can't be disputed it's right there on the web site. [/font]
[font "Georgia"]Again I do my part and I wish that all the fly shops near water did like the shop in J.Hole does and provide a decontamination tank for your boots- that does more good than a " no felt.".[/font]
[font "Georgia"]I agree with most of you on everything else you have said except for your reluctance to admit that the FF industry might be just like any other industry- making a buck- which again is fine with me, it's just the disguise that they promote it with. [/font]
[font "Georgia"]I hope everyone has a safe fish catching weekend.[/font]
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[flygoddess]

[quote packfish][font "Helv"]the difference between felt soles and cheap rubber soles- not the special rubber soles being advertised is isn't close. Take a look at the cheapest wading boot with a felt sole VS the cheapest wading boot with the new rubber- not even close. Felt is cheap- the technology and R&D $$ into the rubber soles is a big.


Take a look at the Minnesota study on this. And I quote" [/font][font "Georgia"]How do you inspect everybody?" It just takes one bad apple that completely disregards what we're trying to get them to do and that's how you transfer it from one lake to another," he said. But he said if every boater does their part, the inevitable march of invasive species can be slowed. ---- Slowed but not stopped[/font]
[font "Georgia"]You aren't going to get every boater and you know it- we can't even get people to pick up their own litter.[/font]
[font "Georgia"]The push by the FF industry is no different than any other industry " going GREEN""|. They are making a killing on it at your expense. I know- I purchase millions (16) of $$ every year in my work and I know what's goes on personally. Does someone really think that recycled paper is saving the forest- it isn't period. It's a money deal . No one has come back and and shown me why the supposedly #1 and 2 transportation vessels ( boots and neos) have not been banned. [/font]
[font "Georgia"]The listed web site on Clean your equipment or what ever sells their merchansie ( T shirts , cups , hats - etc etc) - making a buck off it. Again I'm not saying that's bad- I'm just saying that it's being done and that can't be disputed it's right there on the web site. [/font]
[font "Georgia"]Again I do my part and I wish that all the fly shops near water did like the shop in J.Hole does and provide a decontamination tank for your boots- that does more good than a " no felt.".[/font]
[font "Georgia"]I agree with most of you on everything else you have said except for your reluctance to admit that the FF industry might be just like any other industry- making a buck- which again is fine with me, it's just the disguise that they promote it with. [/font]
[font "Georgia"]I hope everyone has a safe fish catching weekend.[/font][/quote]




You are saying #1....BOOTS and #2 Neoprene. I would have to say this is may 10 & 11 reason. BOAT MOTORS, ANCHOR ROPES, BOAT TRAILERS...etc.

CONSPIRACY THEORY!!!!![]
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[flygoddess]

The thing that does get me steaming is the fact this stuff does get capitalized on like you said.
I still don't get the STICKER thing. A waste of money. Not the idea, but the actual money being used to MAKE the sticker.
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[wackmaster]

I don't think that the spread of invasive muscles can be stopped. With that said, I think the Fish and Game should be spending their time and money researching and working with the irrigation and water companies developing a managment plan so they willl be ready when do do show up. I have read that in europe, where these little buggers come from, that they have installed multiple outlets in their dams. this allows them an opportunity to alternate between them, giving them time to clean them out without disrupting water flow. There are just to many ways to spread them to be wasting resources preventing their introduction, and my biggest fea is that when they do show up and they aren't ready their answer will be to empty the reservoirs in the fall for cleaning. That would just about guarentee an end to most of our bass fishing as well as any type of trophy trout fishing.
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[packfish]

I know it the Great Lakes there is paint they use that has something in it- can't think of it right now that zebra mussels do not adhere to. They use in on the pipes etc. I think on boat bottoms also. I'll try and look that up tonight. 1 of my brothers is a guide on Lake Eire- he doesn't have the problem on his boat because of the paint- though the boat is only fished and stored on Lake Eire.
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