Posts: 78
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2007
Reputation:
0
Kokanee In Jordaelle
Yes I know their isn't any but the Division of Wildlife Resources Should plant them. The Reservoir is deep and cold enough for Kokanee, it also has the Provo River flowing into it where the fish could spawn. I also think Kokanne would not cause any problems for the other fish species in the Reservoir. What do you think?
[signature]
Posts: 716
Threads: 9
Joined: Jul 2006
Reputation:
0
[indent]I'd think maybe Deer Creek would be a better choice. However, I don't think the powers that be are going to introduce any more species to the Provo drainage.
[/indent]
[signature]
Posts: 215
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2006
Reputation:
0
are you a biologist?
If so, state your reasons from a scientific point of view.
[signature]
Posts: 2,436
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2004
Reputation:
0
This is Utah, the legislature decides what happens with fish and game, not some bioligist.
What is needed is imput from an economist.
Can any additional money be made from this? That is the only question that needs to be asked.
[signature]
Posts: 15,529
Threads: 1,315
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation:
12
The first time I saw a kokanee was when I was a teenager fishing Scofield Reservoir in the fall. There were lots of red kokanee up by the dam -- quite the sight to see them for the first time.
[signature]
Posts: 455
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2009
Reputation:
0
My only problem with kokanee in Jordanelle would be the provo river closure they would have to implement in order for the kokes to have any chance at reproducing.
Fishjon
[signature]
Posts: 78
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2007
Reputation:
0
Since you asked I am! And I own and operate one of the largest warm water fish hatcheries in the west. (Google - Livefishdirect.com, check out Crystal Springs Fisheries) So I know a little about fish. So the reasons from a scientific point of view. Why Kokanee in Jordanelle? Kokanee are pelagic feeders, they spend there time swimming in open water instead of cruising structure like many other fish do. They consume zooplankton, out in open water which is mostly Daphnia, Cyclops and other Copepods and Shrimp. Very rarely will one eat a fish, in fact! In 50 years of fishing for Kokanee I have never seen a fish in the stomach contents of a Kokanee. So why Jordanelle? Because it is full of Daphnia and other zooplankton.
Kokanee also like cool deep lakes. That is why you often catch Kokanee at Flaming Gorge at 60 Ft. down. I caught several this year at 100 Feet. Jordanelle is much deeper than Deer Creek and stays cooler.
Since Kokanee rarely eat fish. They pose little or no threat to other fish like bass or even stocked fingerling trout. There is a high possibility that the Kokanee population would be self sustaining by spawning in the Provo River. Because of tight budgets this would help the Division of Wildlife Resources in keeping Fisherman happy. A Win Win for everyone.
[signature]
Posts: 33,371
Threads: 419
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation:
33
I'll have to agree with Guideman on this one. I think a bunch of kokanee fishermen would love to fish for the kokes in a lake that is closer than the Berry or the Gorge. Yes,we all know Causey and Porcupine both have kokes but neither lake has a developed boat launch. It would add another fish to an already great fishery but I don't see it would harm the fish that are there, in fact I think it would make it better. As far as the money end of this goes, the state has spent a lot of money on developing Jordanelle into one of the best state parks in Utah. The problem as I see it is, that although the Nelle is a great bass fishery, it is just a so so trout fishery. Yes the brown trout catching can be great during certain times of the year but I think most folks would rather go to the Berry to catch trout than the Nelle. Adding the Kokes into the mix will just insure more people fish the Nelle because it is closer. As Steve said, it is a win, win situation for everyone. As far as closing off the Provo river because the Kokes are spawning, I don't really see that is an issue and I'm not really sure they would close the river during the spawn. It sure would be nice if one of the state's DNR folks would jump in here but they might not want to get in on this one[:/]. WH2
[signature]
Posts: 2,436
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2004
Reputation:
0
Wellthere Mr. Bioligist, consider if you will that the daphnia that are currently in J are needed by things like baby perch, when you say Kokanee pose little or no threat to existing fish in J.
Also consider that the spawning grounds for the Kokes would be on private property above J. Yes it's all private property from the 1st bride upstream for many miles.
Do you ice fish J? I do. You can see the Daphnia and copepods in the water when you look into your hole. They are the major forage for perch during the winter. That is why we use tiny ice jigs to catch them.
I'm not saying that your idea deos not have merit, but also consider that J is a young lake, less than 20 yrs old and the bottom is still covered with the vegetation that was present when it was flooded. When that vetgetation is done rotting away, the zoo plankton population will crash. Is this when you expect the Kokes to do so well, on their own?
Last, what makes you think that UT fishers are not happy?
[signature]
Posts: 446
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
I for one agree with what you are saying,
also don't forget what they would do for the Browns up there, In my eyes that would be good to see a few more trophy brown in the Rev. and I also think it would make it a little better fishery for the fisherman,
The way it is right now is the DWR. plants rainbow
the browns and bass eat the bows and pearch,
this would help the hole ecosystem I would think
plant the kokanee they spawn feed the rainbows and browns and bass save on the cost of planting bows every year or cut down on the amount anyway, would help out on the survival of some of the perch also,
Look at the gorge and the macks, most lakes and Rev. with kokanee do have more of a trophy fish than do other lakes, the kokanee would not be competing against any other fish so would would hurt to try it anyway,
Most of our trophy fisherys do have multiple species
of fish ??????????
[signature]
Posts: 446
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
Well I am one of the ones that is not happy and it has nothing to do with kokanee,
our trophy fisherys are far and few between,
we have the gorge and strawberry and that is on a good day if that????
So the gorge is what is left, and that is 172 miles away,
or go to another state MT. WY. Idaho,
NV, Or. WA, so what does that tell us about Good old UTAHs management ?????????????
It say it is all about the money!!!!!!!!!!!
[signature]
Posts: 78
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2007
Reputation:
0
Deer Creek has as much or more Zooplankton than Jordanelle and the bottom is bare so I do not think there would be any population crash at Jordanelle as it ages.
As for the baby perch during winter, you will not find them out in the deep water on the surface eating Daphnia like Kokanee do in winter.
[signature]
Posts: 2,504
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2004
Reputation:
1
I don't have strong feelings one way or the other if there are kokes in Jordanelle, but there are a couple of things discussed here that may want to be considered.
1. They may not "take". The first place in my life that I caught a koke was at East Canyon res. in the early 1970's, when I was a youngster. At that time, there was a good run of Kokes in EC. Now they are apparently gone. I do not know why this happened, but the same effects could easily be seen at Jordanelle. The water users draw it down every year so dramatically that it could adversely affect kokes.
2. Yes, kokes are pelagic zooplankton feeders. Troll mentioned that perch fry are zooplankton eaters too. AS are the chubs.(which in Jordanelle, are an important food source for the smallies and browns and are NOT a pest there) There are unintended consequences with any new fish introduction.
3. Re "The problem as I see it is, that although the Nelle is a great bass fishery, it is just a so so trout fishery."
I would oh so humbly disagree. It is indeed underrated, but not underproducing. (Similar to Deer Creek, which is underrated as a trout fishery) The bass just get all of the publicity since it is often so incredible up there for bass.
4. Would the koke trollers enjoy themselves very much being slalomed incessantly by the PWC's and the power squadron? just sayin.
[signature]
Posts: 78
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2007
Reputation:
0
The problem at East Canyon was the very small stream feeding the
reservoir; it is not anything like the Provo River coming into Jordanell. Look at Flaming Gorge; there is a lot more Kokanee in Wyo. Because they spawn in the Green River and the Utah side only has Sheep Creek and a few other small Creeks. The bigger the river the more space to spawn.
One cannot say that the Kokanee would eat all the zooplankton leaving very little for the other fish. The amount of plankton has more to do with light, Nitrogen and space. The trout in Jordanelle are full of Daphnia, so are the trout in Deer Creek, Strawberry and Flaming Gorge.
Yes Jordanelle gets really busy in the summer, but most Kokanee fisherman start very early and could have their limit by 9:00 or 10:00 am. Before the big crowd hits.
[signature]
Posts: 338
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation:
0
I agree with you, I think? I wouldn't mind to see them put Kokanee in there, but there is room for error. Your last statement is valid. Jordanelle is as much a water sports outlet as fishing, especially with the location of it. Summit county teenagers are out there all the time with daddy's boat tearing it up. If it were in BFE it wouldn't have 25 boats hauling around in the middle of summer IMO.
Posts: 2,504
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2004
Reputation:
1
Again, I do not oppose Kokes out of hand up there, but a couple more comments as "devils advocate". (slow work day)
1. RE "The problem at East Canyon was the very small stream feeding the
reservoir"
Have you seen the autumn flows in the UP?, pretty low flow. True, it is bigger than East Canyon, but nothing like the Green. Also, the EC koke run was apparently viable for many years in that small stream (along with some lake spawning) so blaming stream size for their failure would likely be inaccurate.
2. RE: "One cannot say that the Kokanee would eat all the zooplankton leaving very little for the other fish."
Probably not, but we simply do not know what effect it might have. If I had to guess, I would probably agree with you but what if kokes caused the chubs to decline, then with it the smallies? Since I am more of a bass guy and spend most of my Summer fishing time up there chasing bass, I would not be happy with such an occurrence.
3. RE"but most Kokanee fisherman start very early and could have their limit by 9:00 or 10:00 am. Before the big crowd hits."
Pretty confident in your abilities huh,[  ]. All I know is that the neverending b*%#@*ing about the speedboats that takes place here and in other forums tells me it would be yet another conflict. Not that it isn't an issue elsewhere.
Why don't you call the central regional DWR biologists and ask them about this? You may find that they have already looked into planting Kokes there and have good solid scientific FACTS why it hasn't been done, instead of the conjecture laced with truth, as is posited here.
Who knows, they may even say it is a possibility.
[signature]
Posts: 1,646
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2003
Reputation:
0
The smallies would love another treat to snack on.
[signature]
Posts: 78
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2007
Reputation:
0
The purpose of my original post was to see if there would be any support for idea. The DWR will only act on the idea if the public wants it.
[signature]
Posts: 1,964
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2003
Reputation:
0
Not that Kokanee in Jodanelle would be a bad thing. Nor would they ever survive in Utah Lake, but the Provo river, and both of the impoundments of it, are tributaries to Utah Lake. The USFW will not allow the introduction of another species to Utah Lake or it's tributaries. I doubt the UDWR would jump through the hoops the USFW would impose on them to prove that there could be absolutely no adverse effects to the precious June Sucker population.
[signature]
Posts: 208
Threads: 0
Joined: Apr 2004
Reputation:
0
[  ]Hey I like the kokes and would love to see them tried in both the Nelle and D. C. I have never caught perch right below the ice cap but I see a lot of daphne right below the ice. I always catch the perch on the bottom. If the fish they plant is disease free we have nothing to loose. They could stop them if they were a problem. But I think it would be cool if they would plant them and they took. Fun fish to catch. I just like to fish.
[signature]
|
