1X power scopes ?

[crankem]

For the life of me I can't understand why Utah limits ML hunters to 1X scopes[crazy]
The wife and I shot our Omegas the other day in preperation for our up coming LE elk hunt on the Wasatch.
At 100 yards the duplex cross hairs on the Sightron scopes would completly cover a 6 inch target spot. I had to go to a 9 in. paper plate to have a decent target picture to shoot at.
Shooting at 200 yards a standared 20 in x 20 in.target was almost blacked out.
Makes shot placement difficult at anything much past 100 yards.
The Sightron scopes are OK, I just wish they would make them with a fine cross hair instead of the duplex.
Both of our rifles are very capable of 1 1/2 in. groups at 100 yards with a straight 6X power scope. The only thing holding us back from accurate bullet placement is the 1X scope rules.
So it looks to me that we are going to have hold our shots to about 125 yards max.
Here in Wyo. there is not a general ML season. But if and when I decide to use a ML here I can promise you the Omegas will be topped of with a couple of straight 6X power Weaver scopes.
Getting kind of pumped up for this hunt and fishing the Starvation Classic tourney. We will be in Utah for about 5 weeks. Looking forward to seeing the family and visiting with some of my good friends[]
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[PACKFAN]

Headed to the mountains Thursday for the archery opener this weekend, seems to be a few critters in our hunting area. Keeping an eye out for a nice bull for my son to take on the LE rifle elk hunt in the Wasatch unit. Good luck on your hunts. Make sure to post some pictures of your bulls.
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[HookJaw_Brimhall]

[quote crankem] Makes shot placement difficult at anything much past 100 yards.
[/quote]

You answered your own question. A muzzleloader is a "Primitive" weapon.
With a scope on it, it's basically a rifle. Put a scope on it and it's no different than shooting a rifle.

I like the rule, and I hope it stays in place. Keeps things a little more primitive. And keeps the hunts in order.

Bow range - 60 yards
Muzzy range 200 yards
Rifle range 400+ yards
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[crankem]

200 yards? After shooting at 200 yards I don't feel confident enough to take a 200 yard shot on an animal with the sights I'm limited to.
But I have to agree with you, lets keep it primitive. How about just using a cap and round ball? Where do you draw the line?????
Lets face it, with the new MLs there is not too much "primitive"about it any more.
"IF" it's a primitive hunt, how come the rifle hunters have first crack at the elk rather than the ML hunters?
I'm not looking for an argument, I'm just not understanding the Utahs F&Gs thinking on this.
Am I missing something here?

I guess thats why I moved to Wyoming. It's a whole different mind set versus Utah and I haven't regreted one little bit [cool] !!!!!
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[crankem]

Pete, wishing you a good hunt ( not that you need any " Wishes". You guys allways put a good hunt together.
If you happen to see some bulls worth looking at I would be thankfull for the info.
Be safe my friend and have a great time

PS looks like the coffee break will have to wait.
Maybe next summer at Boysen [cool]
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[HookJaw_Brimhall]

[quote crankem]"IF" it's a primitive hunt, how come the rifle hunters have first crack at the elk rather than the ML hunters? [/quote]

The muzzy elk hunt is meant to be a "Migration" Hunt. In many places the muzzy hunters have a huge advantage beacause elk start to move off private lands and onto the state lands (WMAs) to winter. I would hunt muzzy elk before rifle elk anyday.
The deer hunt used to be the same thing, but it became to easy because of the rutt being the same time as the muzzy hunt. To many mature bucks were being taken out of the gene pool.
I think they way things are set up are fine. We need better managment for our deer, but I think the seasons are where they should be.
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[PACKFAN]

I'll be comming thru your area Oct. 29th headed up deer hunting. I would like to fish Boysen I've sure driven by it enough the last 15 years headed up on our hunts.
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[PACKFAN]

Got a charge out of Hookjaw's response on muzzle loading. How long have you been hunting with a muzzleloader Roger? I've known you for close to 30 years and you were hunting with one when I met ya. I hope you and Deb have a great hunt in Utah and I do agree WY. F&G seems to be on top of their game when it comes to managing their hunting and fishing, that's why I quit hunting Utah except for archery and LE hunts. I envy you guys living up there, you get the whole month of Sept. to archery hunt and some of the rifle deer hunts run into Dec. I think. Headed to our old stomping grounds tomorrow after work, hopefully we can bring back some elk meat.
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[crankem]

Migration hunt? That may be the case in November but I'm talking about LE hunts in September. Whole different ball game.
Me thinks you must be a Utah fish cop in disguise on this board [] Just kidding!
Every one has thier own opinion, likes and dislikes on the way the hunts are conducted and managed.
Talk to 10 different bow guys, rifle hunters and muzzy folks and you will probably get 10 different opinions on why the hunts should be kept the same or changed to suit each groups agenda.
I'm just pumped up about having the chance at some big bulls after waiting for so many years for this tag. Even if I do have to limit my shots to 125 yards or closer [:p]
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[crankem]

Pete:
I will be home by the time you pass through so the coffee will be on and the beer on ice.
Maybe we can even get the Ranger wet and pop a few eyes weather permiting.
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[HookJaw_Brimhall]

On LE hunts I agree with you. Muzzy hunts should be before the rifle hunts. I also think that the archery hunt should start in September.
The LE seasons are kinda screwed up.
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[wiperhunter2]

I couldn't agree with you more Roger, if they want us to be limited in range of sight, then they should never have made a scope legal. I wish the scopes we were able to use were at least 2x because our regular eye sight is at least that. The first year I got a scope for my ML I noticed I could see better with open sights than with a 1x scope. I like the cross hair feature when sighting in my MZ but other than that, a 1x scope suck[unimpressed].
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[submoa]

Use an eotech. Problem solved
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[crankem]

submoa:
I agree the eotech would be the cats meow. But I'm having a hard time spending a $1,000 on a couple of sights that I will probably only use once.
I'm sure I'll never buy another lic. in Utah. The rest of the states I'm interested in hunting do not have the 1X scope limits.

Well let me recant that (NEVER) buy another lic. comment.
I do have enough bonus points for an allmost guarenteed moose tag for next year as a non resident. But for that hunt I'll be carrying my 300WSM, not my muzzy gun [:p]
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[SportfishinSteve]

[quote submoa]Use an eotech. Problem solved[/quote]


With a 3X magnifier.... []
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[submoa]

Everyone should have at least one AR Roger. Throw it on there when you're done. Or if you want I can loan you one if you're down S. Jordan way.
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[CROSSINEYES]

BEST EYE BITE IS UP PAST THE BRIDGE RIGHT NOW. I HATE THE 1X POWER RULE AS WELL. THE FOUR WHEELERS I WOULD CALL FORREST BEFORE I WENT ON A MARKED ROAD PLATES OR NO PLATES.[]
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[crankem]

CROSSINEYES:
Your breakin my heart. The Rangers been down for better than a week now with a major hydrolic leak. I'm having withdrawls [crazy]
Looks like Boysen will have to wait till the middle of Oct. when I get back from Utah.
Thanks for the info though.
As far as the wheelers go I've been complaining for years up in the Uinta national forrest about ATVs traveling on roads closed to ATVs.
As per the forrest rangers patrolling the area the machines were out of Mountain View Wyo.,
registered street legal with the street legal lic. plates and they could not stop them from using the roads.
That's straight from the horses mouth. That's why I called the Provo regional forrest service office.
They told me that as long as I have the MVP lic. plate on my ATVs I was legal to use them on any road open to vehical traffic.
We'll see what happens. Never been to jail in Utah. Allways a first time []
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[BigBuck3333]

good lord roger thats why i switched to a straight 4 power years ago with quick release mounts.[][][][][]
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