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Is it best to use a palomar knot? How much line to the weight? How much weight? What type of weight is best? Preferences on hooks or jig heads?
Always bait? or can one use plastics?
Thanks, it was a technique they used on the ocean, but they had double hooks and about 5 feet of leader, in a very strong current.
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[cool][#0000ff]Good questions...but no hard and fast answers. Very subjective and a matter of personal preference and variations in waters, depths, conditions and species being fished.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Your choice of rod, reel and line should influence the weight and the lures you use. You need to have a balance between bottom holding, "touch" and flexibility of presentation. You also need enough backbone in the rod to set the hook at the depth you are fishing and on the size and species of fish.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]In shallower waters, using lighter baits or lures, you can get by with as little as 1/16 oz...but at least 1/8 oz or 1/4 oz. is better. Some DSers routinely use 3/8 to 1/2 oz. A lot depends on how much control they want and how deep they are fishing...and if they are fishing vertical or casting and retrieving...or bottom bouncing. Lots of ways to present a DS rig.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Again, no specific rules on distance between the sinker and hook. Sometimes it needs to be very close to the bottom. Other times it needs to be high enough to ride over a weed bed. In between a distance of 12" to 24" is more the norm...with 18" being a good place to start. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Your sonar will tell you where the fish are holding. Better to be right in the fish or slightly above them. They will usually rise up to hit a lure but sometimes will not move down to pick up something below them.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]A palomar knot is probably the most widely used for tieing a dropshot hook directly to the line. But, unfortunately, it is not very highly rated for knot strength. Do some research on knots and experiment with them until you find one that works to present the hook right and is as strong as possible when you hook a big fish. Lots of different opinions on that.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]You can use any kind of weight...from a split shot to expensive specialized DS weights with line clips on them. Some hold bottom better under certain bottom structure conditions. Others snag more. No one size fits all. But you don't have to spend a fortune on DS weights. I often use a piece of coat hanger or spinner body weights I pour myself.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Lots of hooks sold as DS hooks. Most ring eye or "octopus" hooks will work. I also use ring eye aberdeen hooks and even long shank fly hooks for some applications. The important thing is to balance the hook for the size of the bait or lure you are using...and make sure it is SHARP. It also usually works better if you rig it so that the hook point is pointing up. That is the reason why the Palomar knot is often preferred.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There is no strict requirement that the hook has to be attached directly to the line. In the salt water rigs you mentioned, they usually put loops in the main leader and then attach looped snells to the loops. I used to make and sell those as a youngster in California. Also used them a lot. Caught lots of fish using them. Suggested to me that I could rig freshwater dropshots with a short dropper leader rather than tieing directly to the line. So, I often use a short blood knot dropper or even a small swivel. I catch plenty of fish and they don't seem to notice the difference.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]As with most specialized styles of fishing it is easy to succumb to all the hype and mystery promoted by the tackle makers and the elitist pros who would have you believe that their way is the only way. In truth, as long as you stick with the concept...presenting a bait or lure above a weight on the bottom...you can catch fish. The better you get at rigging and presenting...whatever your preferred method...the more fish you will catch.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Your choice of baits or lures for DSing is unlimited. Obviously, bait works. But so do almost any kind of plastic...tube, twister or shad bodies. The scented artificial GULP minnows are very popular in Utah and other parts of the country for use on DS rigs. They have a good wiggly action and they smell good to fhe fish. A bit pricey though.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I drop shot with flies. I use bright attractor patterns and either cast and retrieve them across the bottom or drag the rig behind my tube. They catch almost any species in Utah. Gets the flies down fast when fish are holding deep and you can wiggle and jiggle them to attract strikes.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Another good tactic is to nose hook small tube jigs...scented with attractant. Ditto for small twisters. They are more easily ripped off the hook when just nose hooked but they really have an attractive wiggle. Kinda like wacky rigging a worm or Senko.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Fire up your search engine and spend some time looking at Drop Shot websites. Lots of good writeups and diagrams from pros around the country. Most of what you find can be applied to Utah waters and fishes.[/#0000ff]
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"[#0000ff]A palomar knot is probably the most widely used for tieing a dropshot hook directly to the line. But, unfortunately, it is not very highly rated for knot strength."[/#0000ff]
[#000000]Pat, I'm surprised, you rarely make mistakes like this.[/#000000]
[#000099]"The Palomar Knot is another very simple knot for terminal tackle. It is regarded by the International Game Fish Association consistently as the strongest knot known."[/#000099]
[url "http://www.eaglespark.com/Knots/palomar.htm"]http://www.eaglespark.com/Knots/palomar.htm[/url]
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"The Palomar Knot is used to tie fishing line to a hook or lure. The Palomar Knot is one of the strongest, if not THE strongest fishing knot know" (n)
[url "http://www.thejump.net/fishing-knots/fishing-knots.htm#Palomar"]http://www.thejump.net/...ng-knots.htm#Palomar[/url]
This knot is good for all kinds of light fishing lines, especially braided [url "http:///wiki/Dacron"][#0645ad]Dacron[/#0645ad][/url], and retains almost all of the original line strength, even with monofilaments.
[url "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palomar_knot"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palomar_knot[/url]
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[cool][#0000ff]Just a personal opinion...based on personal experience...and the input from other anglers whose opinions I respect.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I have had palomar knots break when they should not have broken...on good quality line.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]No matter what position anybody adopts on any given issue they can find support somewhere on the Internet. I tend to stay with what works best for me, but have no quarrel with others who chose otherwise. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There can be significant differences between using a Palomar knot as an end knot and using it as a dropshot knot. Different stresses on the line.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Another major difference is the actual brand and type of line you use. As with all things line-related the different properties in different lines will determine at what percentage of line strength the line will fail. In the tables given in the link below, some palomar knots fail at less than 50% of line strength...including spiderwire.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]With the lines I use and the knot I use I consistently realize close to 100% knot strength. That is good enough for me.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff][url "http://www.sportfishingmag.com/techniques/tips/palomar-knot-break-analysis-53416.html"]ANOTHER LINK[/url][/#0000ff]
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You say u use a blood knot to tie your bait or lure leader to the main line? I can't visualize how that works without sliding up or down. Would you be kind enough to diagram it for impaired fishermen? I have used the double loop setup you mentioned, but it collects lots of moss and weeds for me.
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[cool][#0000ff]I also get moss and weeds, when they are in the water. Hard to avoid that. There are times and places where a favorite rig just don't cut it.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]But, when the water is reasonably clean...and you are making vertical presentations to fish that may be anywhere from the bottom to several feet above...a double dropshot rig increases your odds of getting bit.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Ain't no one-size-fits-all. That's why it is good to know different knots and different rigs...for different species and different conditions.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Here is a diagram. If you need help with blood knots there are quite a few knot websites with diagrams and videos on how to tie them. Takes some practice but worth it if you want a short dropper instead of the direct to line tie.[/#0000ff]
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As far as I know the only way you will have trouble with the Palomar knot is by not pulling the knot down the right way, some lines will burn it's self...
I use the drop shot more then about anyone and for more types of fish then any..
What you posted about using or and the other things are right on, and would have to be shown...
And as far as fishing them goes there is no right or wrong way but the best is how the fish want it at the time you are catching them..
The type of weight can mean if you snag or not and if you are on the bottom or not, just too much to put in print...
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Thanks. very informative, now lets see with a lot of practice if I can be proefficient DSing. I am pretty good with jigs in general, but there is a need for a super slow retrieve and not to sink, I am thinking DS is the answer.
I am headed to the Berry Sunday or next week, I want to give it a try.
Thanks for the help.
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If you stop by Fish Tech in the mornings between 9:30 and 11:00 I mite be there for coffee (if not fishing) on some mornings or Dan who works there and we could show you how we like to drop shot...
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[quote TubeDude][#0000ff]I often use a piece of coat hanger [/#0000ff][/quote]
Do you have any pictures of how you tie the coat hanger on? Do bend it in half or bend a small eye at one end?
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[cool][#0000ff]I first started using "hanger shot" rigs when bottom bouncing crawlers in rivers. The work well in lakes too...for dragging or vertical jigging.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Here are a couple of pics. Just cut off the length you need for the weight you want. 3" is just over 1/8 oz. Use longnose pliers to put a round loop in one end and tie the leader directly to the loop.[/#0000ff]
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Good question, now I can save me some money, I have lots of hangers and hate how much room the bottom bouncers take in my tackle box.
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[cool][#0000ff]The short lengths are not heavy enough to use for bottom bouncing crawler rigs for walleye behind a boat. But they are great for slow drifting. They do not snag easily and they pull through weeds much better than sinkers.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]You can cut and use longer lengths of the wire without scaring the fish. I have used up to a foot of wire dragging on the bottom with no noticeable negative affect on fish. In fact, I think the "ting ting" of the metal dinging on rocks might even attract fish.[/#0000ff]
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[#500000][size 2]Shove a 1/8 in. wooden dowel into the end of a 3/16 in. piece of clear tubing and 1/8 solid core lead wire into the other end.[/size][/#500000]
[#500000][size 2]The wooden part will ride up when being pulled and the lead end will clang along the bottom, like TubeDude mentioned.[/size][/#500000]
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[#500000][size 2]Drill a small hole in the top of the wooden part, (see pics.), and you have something to rival the store bought stuff.[/size][/#500000]
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[#500000][size 2]If you want to get fancy, buy a brown, color fast magic marker, and paint it like a worm.[/size][/#500000]
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