Question about trolling motors

[Fishtales23]

I spent a lot of time yesterday reading posts on the float tube board. I came across a post that stated that the MinnKota Maxxum 40 uses less juice than the Endura 30 (I think that's what is said).

Anyone care to comment?

Thanks!
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[pontoonman]

If you can reference the post, I would take a closer look. Generally speaking if you have electronic speed control you get better milage than a 5 speed resistor type UNLESS you are running 95%+ at full speed. So if the Maxxum has electronic and the Endura doesn't, then it is possible. If they both have the SAME type of speed control then it is almost impossible.

Pon



[quote Fishtales23]I spent a lot of time yesterday reading posts on the float tube board. I came across a post that stated that the MinnKota Maxxum 40 uses less juice than the Endura 30 (I think that's what is said).

Anyone care to comment?

Thanks![/quote]
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[Fishtales23]

Hi Pon,

I wish I knew where I saw it. I should have made a note of it. Rats!

Thanks!
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[idahopanfish]

Digital Maximizer™ technology

This is what you need took look for in the Minn Kota motors. Some have it some don't, the enduro does not some maxxums do.

If you go to Minn Kota they will explain it better than I can.
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[pontoonman]

Going by what is in this ad for minn kota, I don't see any evidence that anything radically new should favor their energy draw. http://www.djsmarineblog.com/trolling-mo...views.html There is a lot of hype credit taking for what is basically old Pulse Width Modification technology. They are still using ancient, inefficient, brush carbon shedding commutator motors because they are very cheap and allow a huge markup. The energy savings would be in converting to brushless electronically commutated motors with a rotating case called outrunners. That's what's being used in solar and electric boat competitions and some electric vehicles. But electronics are sensitive to water, and fail around salt water, so that's why I liked the resistor type back when I was into big boats. You can't make more energy output from digital speed control except compared to resistor control as they point out. Actually, if you run only at high speed the resistor control is MORE efficient because there is zero draw to the non-existinng PWM electronics, but they don't mention that.... And why the different hypes of UP TO 3, 3.5 and 5 times the efficiency (only at THEIR chosen speed, BTW) and battery heat reduction, when essentially any PWM control does this? That said, I have 2 minn kotas and they have been rugged motors over many years back when I used them. The resistor type can be run at double voltage on highest speed and produce double power by switching to a less agressive prop without tearing into the motor, as would be required for digital.

Hope this helps.

[quote Fishtales23]Hi Pon,

I wish I knew where I saw it. I should have made a note of it. Rats!

Thanks![/quote]
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[flygoddess]

It probably was me. I have the Maxxum 40. It is a PWM, not an on off click speed like the 30. Although mine is no longer made, the more you turned the knob, the more thrust. I can run mine on 5% which is hardly turning, but enough o hold my position.
I can run mine off and on for 4 days, where the 30 was a 5 to 7 hour shift.
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[flygoddess]

[quote pontoonman]Going by what is in this ad for minn kota, I don't see any evidence that anything radically new should favor their energy draw. http://www.djsmarineblog.com/trolling-mo...views.html There is a lot of hype credit taking for what is basically old

Pulse Width Modification technology.

They are still using ancient, inefficient, brush carbon shedding commutator motors because they are very cheap and allow a huge markup. The energy savings would be in converting to brushless electronically commutated motors with a rotating case called outrunners. That's what's being used in solar and electric boat competitions and some electric vehicles. But electronics are sensitive to water, and fail around salt water, so that's why I liked the resistor type back when I was into big boats. You can't make more energy output from digital speed control except compared to resistor control as they point out. Actually, if you run only at high speed the resistor control is MORE efficient because there is zero draw to the non-existinng PWM electronics, but they don't mention that.... And why the different hypes of UP TO 3, 3.5 and 5 times the efficiency (only at THEIR chosen speed, BTW) and battery heat reduction, when essentially any PWM control does this? That said, I have 2 minn kotas and they have been rugged motors over many years back when I used them. The resistor type can be run at double voltage on highest speed and produce double power by switching to a less agressive prop without tearing into the motor, as would be required for digital.

Hope this helps.

[quote Fishtales23]Hi Pon,

I wish I knew where I saw it. I should have made a note of it. Rats!

Thanks![/quote][/quote]





Pulse Width Modification technology....I think you mean Pulse Width Modulation.


Wouldn't Brushless be hard for DC and a compact size?
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[mojorizing]

[quote Fishtales23]I spent a lot of time yesterday reading posts on the float tube board. I came across a post that stated that the MinnKota Maxxum 40 uses less juice than the Endura 30 (I think that's what is said).

Anyone care to comment?

Thanks![/quote]
Go ahead and get the Maxxum. It will use less juice than an analog controlled motor like the Endura, and I'll bet up to 50% less. On a kickboat you'll not be using it on full throttle very much, if at all. And it being 45# thrust you should be able to go a couple days before charging. Plus if you get an AGM battery, it'll be even better.
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[pontoonman]

Hi, goddess. Sorry if I came across as a know it all, I don't! Got carried away in my explanation.

http://musicbycybertron.com/q960_vcpwm_mod.htm

Pon



[quote flygoddess][quote pontoonman]Going by what is in this ad for minn kota, I don't see any evidence that anything radically new should favor their energy draw. [url "http://www.djsmarineblog.com/trolling-motor-reviews.html"]http://www.djsmarineblog.com/...g-motor-reviews.html[/url] There is a lot of hype credit taking for what is basically old

Pulse Width Modification technology.

They are still using ancient, inefficient, brush carbon shedding commutator motors because they are very cheap and allow a huge markup. The energy savings would be in converting to brushless electronically commutated motors with a rotating case called outrunners. That's what's being used in solar and electric boat competitions and some electric vehicles. But electronics are sensitive to water, and fail around salt water, so that's why I liked the resistor type back when I was into big boats. You can't make more energy output from digital speed control except compared to resistor control as they point out. Actually, if you run only at high speed the resistor control is MORE efficient because there is zero draw to the non-existinng PWM electronics, but they don't mention that.... And why the different hypes of UP TO 3, 3.5 and 5 times the efficiency (only at THEIR chosen speed, BTW) and battery heat reduction, when essentially any PWM control does this? That said, I have 2 minn kotas and they have been rugged motors over many years back when I used them. The resistor type can be run at double voltage on highest speed and produce double power by switching to a less agressive prop without tearing into the motor, as would be required for digital.

Hope this helps.

[quote Fishtales23]Hi Pon,

I wish I knew where I saw it. I should have made a note of it. Rats!

Thanks![/quote][/quote]





Pulse Width Modification technology....I think you mean Pulse Width Modulation.


Wouldn't Brushless be hard for DC and a compact size?[/quote]
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[pontoonman]

Goddess wrote:

Wouldn't Brushless be hard for DC and a compact size?

No, model RC planes use brushless DC motors the size of your fist that produce several horsepower.

Pon
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[Fishtales23]

Thanks, that info helps a lot. I appreciate the time you took to explain!
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[pontoonman]

[quote Fishtales23]Thanks, that info helps a lot. I appreciate the time you took to explain![/quote]

Sure, no trouble at all. By the way here is a version of the super efficient troll motor minn kota should be building :

http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/home.html

It uses the motor and PWM I described as well as the lightest battery being used in electric vehicles, but is very expensive due to import and no competition from other companies! When this catches on prices will drop with mass production and competition......

Pon

Pon
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[flygoddess]

Now look at the price. For $1700. I would go small gas and have money left over for gas for several years.

I am betting the Minn Kota price at $100 is because they choose to stick with the brushes.
It is a cool motor but, I don't see allot of people running out to buy them. Loaded with very nice extras and worth the coin for sure.
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[pontoonman]

Yes, there is a lot of places to put $1700 before I would go for one of these. The size would be more in line with toons and tubes though. These special motors are not all that expensive themselves, so it is doable by minn kota.at a decent price once mass production kicks in. They have to retool the factories and get a different mindset and it is always easier to flood the market with inferior products, doing cosmetic changes and holding out until you're threatened with a big loss of market share. By the time these troll motors are selling for $200 and minn kota decides to compete, it will be too late, and more jobs will go overseas....

Pon

.[quote flygoddess]Now look at the price. For $1700. I would go small gas and have money left over for gas for several years.

I am betting the Minn Kota price at $100 is because they choose to stick with the brushes.
It is a cool motor but, I don't see allot of people running out to buy them. Loaded with very nice extras and worth the coin for sure.[/quote]
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