Licenses

[flygoddess]

Anyone know how much they will be going up for 2012?
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[GP]

I seen an article in the Trib. and I think it said it would be 2013. The amount was insgnificant. If you know Paul Dreman he has the answers.
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[riverdog]

Saw the same thing. It mentioned dipping into the emergency fund of DWR to keep licenses the same price. Also saw how they are spending tons to over produce trout eggs and trout that get given away out of state or wasted in another article. Doesn't make much sense not to cut out waste first and use the emergency fund for real emergency. But I don't work for the government and seldom understand their "logic".
As mentioned cost will probable go up in 2013 but I don't recall them mentioning by how much.
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[BigBuck3333]

mine has been the same since 1992.[cool][cool][cool][cool][cool][cool][cool][cool]
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[Fishrmn]

Free?? Mine too![cool][cool][cool]
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[flygoddess]

[quote riverdog]Saw the same thing. It mentioned dipping into the emergency fund of DWR to keep licenses the same price. Also saw how they are spending tons to over produce trout eggs and trout that get given away out of state or wasted in another article. Doesn't make much sense not to cut out waste first and use the emergency fund for real emergency. But I don't work for the government and seldom understand their "logic".
As mentioned cost will probable go up in 2013 but I don't recall them mentioning by how much.[/quote]


Don't know about the waste, but, I doubt we GIVE away to other states, I would think we do get paid for this, but just a guess.
I don't think that article is totally truthful, but we do need some changes. I think raising our out of state could help. Wy. and Id are just shy of $100. for out of staters, and have been for a few years.
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[mojorizing]

[quote riverdog]Saw the same thing. It mentioned dipping into the emergency fund of DWR to keep licenses the same price. Also saw how they are spending tons to over produce trout eggs and trout that get given away out of state or wasted in another article. Doesn't make much sense not to cut out waste first and use the emergency fund for real emergency. But I don't work for the government and seldom understand their "logic".
As mentioned cost will probable go up in 2013 but I don't recall them mentioning by how much.[/quote]
Remember, that article was about an audit. Bean counters. Why not give the DWR a chance to reply. The world isn't black and white.
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[riverdog]

Here's the link to the article;
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/outdoors/53...h.html.csp
It states Utah " given away about $700,000 in eggs to out of state hatcheries and have discarded almost $600,000 in viable eggs over the past three years because of overproduction." Yes Utah does also trade but not sure with so much excess their getting a fair trade or not.
And DWR Director did reply in the article “We intentionally overproduce eggs,” said Karpowitz. “You can have pretty big failures, and you don’t want to get caught short. But we have been overproducing more than we need to. We have cut that back to about 20 percent overproduction.”
Pretty cavalier attitude about overspending a million plus dollars IMHO. Especially given that their are 12 state hatcheries and even if one had a complete failure it would be unlikely to have much impact overall. I'd like to see the numbers to justify this. When was the last time the state didn't meet it's goals and by how much? They need to start treating DWR revenue as real money. I'd personally rather pay an increase next year than they dip into the emergency fund. Of course I'd rather they spent the money more rationally before needing to increase funds or dip into that fund. Goes to show how IMHO poor leadership can be a million dollar mistake. And yes they increased licenses but that's not an excuse to waste a million dollars. I own a business and if these folks should be glad they don't work for me. They're rationale and fiscal responsibility would have put them in the unemployed category long ago. I emailed DWR a few weeks ago and they never responded. I guess when your burning money on low probability non-catastrophic scenarios you don't have the time to respond to those that support your division every year. OK I'll get off my rant now. Hopefully get out and go fishing this weekend despite the weather.
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[cpierce]

Who decides the value of the eggs? I doubt that figure reflects the actual cost of producing those eggs. I am guessing that it is the value of the eggs if they had to buy them. There are costs involved such as more breeders or more fish trapped. Also testing, chemicals, and additional facility costs. Those are real costs.

They do need to over produce some eggs, as each batch that is produced is tested for disease days later, and if there is a problem that whole batch must be destroyed. They have to figure some failures in, plus it makes sense to trade some eggs with other states. It just may not show up in the value column.

Still producing viable eggs is much less expensive than feeding out fingerlings or catchables. To feed out all of those extra fish would have been a REAL cost. Eggs destroyed may just be asset value gone cost rather than an asset sold cost.

Those figures could just be bean counting. You might contact your DWR and ask on the actual cost of producing the extra eggs that aren't used.
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[hookngrinin]

I agree with cpierce. The cost to produce viable eggs would be far less than the value placed on them if they were to be sold. A major cost of producing eggs would be maintaining the brood stock. To reduce costs, the brood would need to be reduced. The article also mentions excess fish are produced beyond stocking quotas. These excess fish are not wasted. Many of them are stocked out to waters that receive heavy fishing pressure and other waters that could use the fish. IMO the UDWR is doing an excellent job with their fisheries program and hatchery system. This audit just helps identify some adjustments that need to be made so it operates more efficiently.
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[CROSSINEYES]

mine was not free since 92 but it gets cheaper every yr im still breeathing. lol best 5 hundred i ever threw away the wife says.[]
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[CoyoteSpinner]

[quote flygoddess]Anyone know how much they will be going up for 2012?[/quote]

I know last year they managed to in essence raise the fee for the Annual Parks Pass - w/o technically "raising" the fee, basically lowering the benefit.

1. Used to get a $5 discount on the $75 charge if you had a fishing license. No more.
2. Used to get a $2 discount on camping charges at the State Campgrounds. No more.

and drumroll please . . .

3. Lowered the benefit by Closing Willard access for winter!

[center]I think it's about time us Anglers got a Bailout!
Less Trout! More Wipers and Musky!!!
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[flygoddess]

I have bought PAsses before and never got any of those things so, didn't notice. I know Uinta went up but it now includes American Fork which is cool.
As far as Willard closing, I think that is Willard.
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[Fishrmn]

[quote CROSSINEYES]mine was not free since 92 but it gets cheaper every yr im still breeathing. lol best 5 hundred i ever threw away the wife says.[][/quote]
Ya paid for it once. You haven't spent another dime on it since, have ya?

I love it when a C.O. asks me for a license. I tell them, "I haven't bought a license in 19 years, and I have no intention of buying another one, ever". Some of 'em get it, some of 'em get all "flustrated".
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[PBH]

[quote riverdog]...Especially given that their are 12 state hatcheries and even if one had a complete failure it would be unlikely to have much impact overall. I'd like to see the numbers to justify this. ..[/quote]

Wow. Talk about "cavalier". Or, maybe rather ignorant. Before someone get's their panties in a wad, go read the definition of [url "http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ignorant"]ignorant[/url].

So, unlikely to have much impact if 1 hatchery had a complete failure, eh?

What if that failure involved the loss of colorado river cutthroat eggs? I mean, it's not like all 12 hatcheries are raising CRC. In fact, it's not like you can just go out and collect a bunch more CRC eggs to replace them either, because those fish only spawn once a year. So, when you talk about "unlikely to have much impact" you display just how ignorant you are on the subject.

So, how about those goals? When was the last time they didn't meet their goals? Well, with the CRC, like in the example above, this has happened multiple times in the past due to hatchery failures. i believe that 2009 was the last for CRCs.

You have a very strong opinion on a subject you know very little about. My recommendation to you would be to do some homework before you go off on another rant. Otherwise, you'll continue to show us all how ignorant you are.
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[riverdog]

And what percent of money with trout production is spent on the CRC? Unless it's a very substantial percentage ( which it clearly isn't) doesn't really play much into all the wasted money on excess trout production. Sounds like they might not be doing a great job with a sensitive species like CRC at the expense of worry whether the have 100% of the rainbow quota each year. My point is who cares if we end up with 90% of the rainbows ( or tiger trout or brook trout) goal one year? Do we really need to shoot for something like 120-150% of what is needed each year just to ensure this doesn't happen occasionally. Hopefully the CRC #'s was an isolated event otherwise it's further evidence of irrational priorities and spending policies at DWR. I agree DWR is justified in being redundant when it comes sensitive trout subspecies but how much of this excess cost/ production is actually tied up in that. Thanks for drawing out the distinction with a reasonable example of this need even if it's a relatively minor one as far as cost.
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[PBH]

River -- audits are good. I've never seen a fiscal audit yet where improvements and recommendations haven't been made. There are always ways to improve. I don't think that Utah's hatchery system is exempt from that. But, I seriously don't believe that you have a clue anything about our hatcheries.

If we allow auditors to run our hatcheries, you'll end up with a state with nothing but rainbow trout and tiger trout to angle for. I doubt that is what you want.

I'm sure that we'll see some changes in the future. Our hatcheries are always getting better, and with better success at raising fish comes more opportunity for excess -- please don't be so arrogant to think that our hatchery personnel don't understand this. As they get better, they also need to adjust.

There are also other factors that people reading the article -- including the auditors -- don't factor in. Consider: bird predation timing -- sometimes you need to raise fish to a larger size to avoid predation by migrating birds (spring). If you stock them in the spring, because an accountant told you it was cheaper, you may end up paying MORE in the long-run because you just lost all your fish. Species type, spawning timing, stocked-size timing, native species, reservoir water levels, success rate of learning how to create triploid brook trout (rainbow trout), etc., etc., etc.

there is more to it than simply raising rainbow trout, and counting numbers.
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[flygoddess]

All I wanna know is, where did all the Kamloop go that got planted in Mantua[][laugh]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Not ideal habitat. They grew big and fast as long as water temps and water quality held up. But a hot summer and low water stressed them and they got terminal anchor worms and other ailments.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Too bad. Great fish but just not prime for Mantua. That area doesn't look a bit like British Columbia.[/#0000ff]
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[kandersonSLC]

If only every $26 I paid to the government brought me as much benefit and pleasure as my fishing license.
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