Get the lead out? Not this time

[CoyoteSpinner]

There was talk before about he proposals to the EPA to ban the use of lead in fishing tackle. News reports indicate the ban was shot down - as in denied - Feb 14th.

So you lead heads - just keep on pouring! No Tungsten for YOU! (unless that's your choice. Not that there's anything wrong with that)

[TyeDyeTwins]

Thank god!
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[flygoddess]

I read an article about banning lead, I think it was Montana. The reason the senate did NOT want to ban it was because it would mean ammo would go up in price and force hunters to refrain from hunting. Pretty lame, I know, but all about the $$ not the effects of the lead.
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[Hookinup]

IMO there are a lot more harmful things in the water than lead that will cause problems in humans...... Seems like the lead from jig heads and cast weights would be very diluted in a huge lake....
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[CoyoteSpinner]

I don't propone nor dispell the use. But I think your right on the money when you say it's a $$s thing more than sense- of the environmental kind.

Hell we're paying enough for gas, and while the price of your hackles these days since the fashion faze of feathers - seems like anglers and hunters could use a break. At least until there's concrete evidence.

I think the previous thread discussed a couple concerns - cost, and melting temp of Tungsten vs Lead.

I ran across [url "http://www.healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/Portals/0/Health/EnvironmentalHealth/FishGuide03_2010.pdf"]this link[/url] on the Idaho board - it's a good read about toxins in fish, and safe fish consumption - for those that do fill a basket once in a while. Seems like Mercury is a bigger threat - and unlike other toxins - it doesn't reside in the fatty parts.

The sportfishing industry and anglers voiced stern opposition to the potential ban. Anglers now can cancel plans to take out second mortgages to replace their entire arsenals of lead weights with the more expensive tungtsen sinkers

[in2fishing]

A . . . . ya you got to know that hunting is how all or almost all of the funds are made . with out hunting fees we would have way less then we do.

LONG LIVE THE DUCK STAMP.

NO way that what little lead that hunting puts out hurts any thing!!!!!
i am not bagging on your post - i am thank full for those like you in the left field and those in the right field so i can live my life in the center.
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[submoa]

I believe this has to do more with ammunition than anything. The PETA types would love to ban lead hunting ammo as they know it would be a huge inconvenience and would devastate the hunting industry until the manufactures all geared up with other products. There are a lot of non lead bullets now as CA has some pretty severe restrictions which has pushed them to do it. The cost would be overwhelming in my opinion. I'm glad they shot this down.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]When lead is outlawed...only outlaws will have lead.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]If they want my leadhead jigs they will have to pry them from my cold dead fingers. Hope they get a hook in past the barb.[/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

Mercury is a big issue, but no way will they ever stop the strip mining. The cost of Gold out weighs the Toxic Mercury.

I am by no means PITA. but if there is a way to achieve the same effect without self imposing damage to the earth, I think I will try it.

while I agree a "my little ol' jig heads and split shot are not enough to make an impact" I do have to stand back and look how much the population has and is growing, reflect on China and think...well maybe it could.

Let me also add, I am no judge and as long as it is legal have no problem with others decision what so ever. So, I too am middle
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[Therapist]

The proponents of banning lead want to do so because certian birds are supposed to ingest lead and die as a result. Their claim is based on a study in England where two loons were found to have lead sinkers in their crops. There have been NO such findings in the US or for that matter in the rest of the world. A ban on lead in fishing tackle is simply an Anti Fishing move.

Now, there are instances where animals shot with lead bullets have died and birds such as Eagles, Buzzards, and such have ingested the particles and have again died from the ingested lead. However, the incidence is very very small. To put it in perspective, the Wind Farms in Central and Northern California kill more raptors, specifically Golden Eagles and various hawks, per week than die from lead ingestion all year. California has instituted a no lead ammunition ban in areas where the California Condor ranges, you have to use copper ammo there.

In reality, the only place where lead from hunting has been a problem has been in the Waterfowl marshes and that has already been taken care of. Any other calls for the banning of lead, especially in fishing tackle is nothing more that Anti Fishing BS.

By the way, when I loose a jig, sinker, etc , it is usually in deep water, over 3-4 feet !! Don't know of may birds that diver that deep looking for gravel for their crops. I am also not aware of any birds that would swallow a jig with a hook attached !! This is all BOVINE SCATOLOGY !!!

[wyoguy]

I'm with ya Dude! We have to draw the line somewhere, we already gave up our leaded gas!
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[joethafoe]

the trash left on the shore from amatuer anglers is probably more harmful then the lead that is used on jig heads
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[flygoddess]

[quote Therapist]The proponents of banning lead want to do so because certian birds are supposed to ingest lead and die as a result. Their claim is based on a study in England where two loons were found to have lead sinkers in their crops. There have been NO such findings in the US or for that matter in the rest of the world. A ban on lead in fishing tackle is simply an Anti Fishing move.

Now, there are instances where animals shot with lead bullets have died and birds such as Eagles, Buzzards, and such have ingested the particles and have again died from the ingested lead. However, the incidence is very very small. To put it in perspective, the Wind Farms in Central and Northern California kill more raptors, specifically Golden Eagles and various hawks, per week than die from lead ingestion all year. California has instituted a no lead ammunition ban in areas where the California Condor ranges, you have to use copper ammo there.

In reality, the only place where lead from hunting has been a problem has been in the Waterfowl marshes and that has already been taken care of. Any other calls for the banning of lead, especially in fishing tackle is nothing more that Anti Fishing BS.

By the way, when I loose a jig, sinker, etc , it is usually in deep water, over 3-4 feet !! Don't know of may birds that diver that deep looking for gravel for their crops. I am also not aware of any birds that would swallow a jig with a hook attached !! This is all BOVINE SCATOLOGY !!![/quote]


I am not sure why you feel there is no cases and studies in the USA, and why you feelit is small.
As far as Birds eating you fishing tackle, it is morethe birds eating the fish that are now toxic.
There is a lot on this on the net, here is just one:

http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/disease_informa...poisoning/


Again, I am neither here nor there. I do again, see there being a non toxic exchange, but that is up to each one of us to feel the justification.
Unfortunately I do feel it will come down to a no questions asked ban some day.

Great post and way to kill a gloomy day.
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[12inchlunker]

Lets not lump amateur fishing people with leaving garbage behind. That has nothing to do with someone being an amateur....plus I don't know a single person that is considered a professional fisher.......I'm not for sure. I think you have to make money to be considered a pro and even then. :-) leaving trash behind is just lame people pro or not.
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[salsinkers]

As for hunting I can't help you much with lead shot but if you are looking for lead free drop shot sinkers there is a new one available.

www.salamandersinkers.com
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[12inchlunker]

I just drill a hole through some gravel and use that as a sinker :-)
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[Therapist]

I have yet to see a peer reviewed study on the effects of lead sinkers and lead in fishing tackle having an effect on birds. There is a lot of speculation on the subject, but I have yet to find a peer reviewed article on the subject, hence the EPA's decision to decline to look at the subject. I am not a big fan of the EPA, but in this instance the got it right. The USGS article is interesting, but again, there is no solid evidence to support the allegations that lead in fishing tackle is a danger to birds. The incidence of lead poisoning in upland birds seems to be similar to what is being alledged for fishing tackle, lots of speculation, no hard evidence. The chances of a dove, quail, pheasant, etc picking up some lead shot in their quest for gravel is very small, possible but small. Again, there is evidence that birds like eagles, hawks, buzzards, etc do pick up lead from animals that have been shot and they scavenge on them, but the incidence is small. Check out the mortality due to Wind farms vs lead poisoning !!! This is not about reducing the numbers of birds that ingest lead from fishing tackle and more about Anti Fishing propaganda !!!

[flygoddess]

Anti fishing propaganda? Okay. or $$$$ ?

Just to add a little science to the fray:
http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/b...n/ingested.htm
http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/disease_inf...ning/index.jsp
http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/disease_inf...ds_sinkers.pdf


Sources at the USGS in reference to the impact of lead in the environment to waterfowl. While it deals mostly with lead shot from guns the PDF on "sinkers" is relevant. A quick search on the INTERNET explains the solubility of lead in (stomach or gizzard) acid and its transformation in to (lead) compounds which can be absorbed in to the bloodstream.

We already figured out why the EPA dropped it...(cha-ching)[]
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[fishnate]

[quote Therapist]Now, there are instances where animals shot with lead bullets have died...[/quote]

Like every time I shoot at one. Lead bullets are definately fatal when used correctly[]

This lead ban is just another way for the nanny state to control us and regulate out of existance a practice they don't approve of. It gets really dangerous when they get sportsmen to willingly go along with it, often so the sportmen can avoid being called nasty names. A goodly portion of these environmentalist do gooders are as hypocritical as can be. They are a bunch of very unhappy folks who spend way too much time trying to find ways to make the rest of us unhappy. The most truely dedicated environmentalists are the ethical sportsman and farmers.
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[riverdog]

Here's a link with a review of lead in fishing gear with references http://www.unep-aewa.org/meetings/en/stc...review.pdf
Not sure why all the concern about windfarms and birds http://www.sibleyguides.com/conservation...mortality/
And I just saw an article in a peer reviewed journal on increase strokes linked to daily pollution levels even when they remain totally within what the EPA says is healthy air quality.http://www.aan.com/elibrary/neurologytoday/?event=home.showArticle&id=ovid.com:/bib/ovftdb/00132985-201204050-00001
That doesn't even take into all the heart attacks, autism , asthma and such that would increase without wind farms. Or that we don't have many "healthy" air days in the winter here to begin with. Since we know the alternatives to wind farms kill and harm humans and the alternatives to lead don't please back up your data with up to date and accurate facts. Lead in fishing gear seems to have potentially harmful effects only when the item in question is small and might be ingested. So they should focus on lead weights and leave Tubedude alone with his lead smelter. Cost to phase out smaller lead weights only in fishing would be relatively small. I personally like tungsten better.

FYI,since mercury was brought up by someone, there are no studies that show humans suffer from eating fish with mercury. The recommendations for all including pregnant women aren't science based but theoretical.The science actually suggest the opposite. Pregnant women who eat larger amounts of fish in pregnancy have children with higher IQ's than those who eat less or no fish. Health benefits have been shown in nonpregnant adults as well.
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