Still learning the ropes

[UTExplorer]

I have really started to get into fly fishing and I have done okay throwing Dries, Wolly's and Terrestrials. But, I can't for the life of me catch a fish using scuds, or nymphs both in still water and in rivers. I feel like I have the basics down, but I am not sure what I am missing. I have had a couple hits fishing rivers, but man they spit it quickly and often I end up dodging my flies as they fly towards my face. [blush]

So I have tried the "Provo Bouncer with a bout a 6 inch tag off the bottom fly, as well as weight above the top fly and just can't catch anything on either rig. I was fishing a 5-6ft deep run and I had tried it both with and without an indicator using about 6-8 ft of leader.

I have not been able to cast these rigs very far, but from my observing other fisherman in the same area's it doesn't appear that is unnecessary?

I keep the rod high as it drifts through the run, as well as slowly pull the slack in to keep in drag free as possible.

In regard's to still water, I have not had a bite, but I was fishing them higher in the water column, since I only have floating line at this point.

My main questions in fishing still water being, will they only hit a nymph close to the bottom, or will they hit at any depth, as long as that is where they are hanging/feeding?

Also, I have tried a very slow, no movement retrieve as well as a more erratic twitching retrieve, with no success.

Any tips/suggestions would be appreciated.
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[Jazzperch1]

im suprised you havent been able to get any on scuds or sowbugs, but the weeb always fishes better than the provo in my expereince that is my go to rig there a bigger scud with a small sow bug imitation behind it about a foot should do. you also dont need to really be able to cast that far on a nymph setup cause with 2 bugs and splitshots along with your indiccator(if you use one} make it tough to do a normal dry cast. its almost just a cast if you can call it that, you just lift the rod tip up with the desired line you wish to toss and almost just flick it up into the run, that i can only say unless its practiced a bit.
Also when going through a run in a river keeping slack off your set up is good but if you dont mend your line for your bugs to do a natural drift like the water presents itself then alot more times than not your are pulling the bug unaturally fast past them, but not saying you couldnt get any fish that way if they are aggressive but most of the time fish dont like to exert unnessecary energy to get bugs thats why they will sit in a feeding lane and take the bugs that just drift on by. plus scuds and sowbugs work best below tailwater cause that is where they are most abundant.

as for the still water fishing most bugs should work at any water depth in just depends on finding active feeding fish. ive gotten trout on sowbugs and scuds in my tube doing the deep water nymphing technique that flygoddes showed me and have gotten them anywhere from surface to 35 40 feet. hope this helps
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[flygoddess]

You could use a floating line in the early morning and late evening, but with the heat of the day or storm moving in, they are going to go deep.
You can try deep nymphing with your floating line and a leader the length of the depth. Sonar is great here but you can drop some forcepts or some kind of weight to determine where the bottom is. Then set an indicator to suspend that fly off the bottom about a foot or so.
Dries are great on a River/stream, but can be hit miss on stillwater. Sure is fun when they are rising though.
I do use a sinking line and attach a streamer and a nymph. Cast out and either a steady strip ot s slow figure eight.
Might hit Strawberry this weekend, be happy to share what I know which ic not everything[].
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[riverdog]

Nymph fishing in streams is very productive way to fish. Almost too easy. I'm wondering if you're detecting the strikes. What size rod are you using and how big are the typical fish? One of the many reason I fish with a lighter rod is it is extremely sensitive to strikes. Go try some small streams with clear water and fish upstream to fish you see. You can see them take the nymph and get used to the feel of it while watching. My other advise is to have someone experience join you. They could probable quickly point out any major mistakes and help you correct what you're doing.
With still water and floating line I don't find what you're doing very productive unless you are seeing fish cruising looking for food or feeding on the surface. If it's sunny out this is the time of year I'd fish deeper otherwise.
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[Jazzperch1]

also another good technique is what i call a kick troll with any kind of bugger or emerger pattern, this needs to be done in a tube or toon but just let out alot of line maybe 50 feet or so and just kick around an area slowly and you bug will be about 6 inches to a foot under the surface and you will know when one hits doing that technique, like a frieght train[]
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[OldTroller]

On the Provo bouncer rig I never put weight above the flies just put enough on the tag to make them tick along on the bottom. In 5 to 6 feet of water I would have 7 to 10 feet below my indicator depending on the speed of the water.

Casting those rigs is tough but the good news is you never need to cast more than about 20 feet with that Provo bounce rig.

On still water with a floating line you're limited in both what you can fish and where. It will work but I would stay in shallow water and cast as long/far as you're able. Strip your fly in about ten one foot strips then pick it up and cast it about 20° to the left or right and repeat. Of course you'll want to change flies after you go all the way around the circle without any takes. If you get takes but no good hook ups then change your retrieve i.e. faster or slower or jerkier etc. If that doesn't work change colors but stay in the same style.
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[RockyRaab]

I'll second the idea of having your splitshot on the very end of the line, about two inches up. Two dropper lines above that for your nymphs. That way, you feel bites better and if you do snag, the shot will simply strip off the tag end of line and you won't lose the flies.

If you use an indicator, the classic formula is 1.5X the water depth. So in four feet of water you'd have the indicator six feet up, for example. That allows for some bend in the line and still have the flies near the bottom.

As for casting, I usually drop the rig about 45° upstream and let it drift along a seam (mending as needed) until it gets 45° downstream and then raise the rod until all slack is gone. A simple sweep of the arm "casts" it back upstream again. I keep the rod almost horizontal during the actual drift to make mending easier.

ANY hesitation in the indicator's movement can be a strike. Or just bottom. It pays to make a "soft" strike to be sure. If you feel resistance, strike again a bit firmer.
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[flygoddess]

Adding one more thing to this....stay low. I have been fishing nothing but rivers this week and those fish can spot you 15' away!

I agree on the PRB. Split shot only on the end of leader. with tags about 12" to 18" away. Nice things about tags. You can place your split shot on the end of your leader, attach a 12" piece of tippet about 6" up from split shot and un weighted fly will be on the bottom but not snagging.

On other suggestion, try WET FLIES. Softhackles. Olive, Orange, Purple. When wet they can represent so many insects, and the undulate action attracts fish. Old School.
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[UTExplorer]

I really appreciate your feed back, I think I might have been mending to much and will work on creating a slower/ natural drift.
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[UTExplorer]

I didn't receive anyone's responses as a notification in my email, so I was a little late checking my thread. Really appreciate everyone's thoughts, and I plan on implementing a lot next trip out.
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[UTExplorer]

I would love the opportunity to fish with ya, but my budget is so tight right now, I will be limited to the lower Weber, if I can find the time around my family and school work. One day I plan on taking you up on your offers, hopefully in the near future.

One of the things that you said, is probably my biggest problem, I was tying my Provo bouncer rig all inline, without adding tags. Which now makes sense as I imagine my presentation being stiff and straight....not very natural.
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[UTExplorer]

I have a 5wt fast action, fish range from 10-17". I also have not caught a whitefish, which I hear are fairly common in the Weber, so I was wondering if I am still not getting the flies in the zone/ feeding lane. I will try the smaller stream idea, when I am in Logan in a couple weeks. Thanks.
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[UTExplorer]

Thanks for the tips, it's a relief hearing about casting those rigs, I really felt like I was inept at casting further than 20 feet. I will also vary my retrieves more when fishing still water.
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[UTExplorer]

Cool thanks, for your thoughts. I think setting the hook softly when the indicator stops, may be a piece of the puzzle. I will try it out and see if that helps.
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