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It's an Outcast, but what is it???
#1
Hey there fellow tubers,
I am going to be needing a little help, information wise. Here is my story.
My sincere apologies in advance for the length of the post, but it'll probably save a lot of back and forth postings requestiong additional information as what is written here is everything I know about the subject at hand. :-)

I received a "new" used tube the other day. My wife, bless her little old heart, saw it on Craigs List and she decided to "upgrade me" from my golden oldie moldy W.W. Grigg VP 8000 float tube.
I guess it's because of all the talk of "someday being able to afford a Fish Cat, Fat Cat or a Super Fat Cat float tube.

I was delighted and overjoyed when she said, with a big old Smile, "I gotcha' an Outside Caster Fish Fat Super Cat Tuber or something like that honey, here ya go! Have fun gettin' wet, sweetie."

I was delighted to say the least, at first. Now I don't know what to think. o_0 ???
It doesn't look like any Outland Fish Cat or Fat Cat I've ever seen. On the side of each tube it says "Outcast Sporting Gear" with the "fishing rod and fish" logo and all that, so it's obviously made by Outcast, but what is it? Any ideas?

I've included some pics in order to help with the process and the copy from the ad on Craigs List.

A visit to the Outcast website yeilded no joy, plus a couple of emails in the last few weeks to Outcast have not been answered or acknowledged as of yet, no help there, so I guess I'm on my own.
I tried a Google search, one for Web and one for Images, for older models, discontinued models, etc., of Outcast float tubes and couldn't find much that even looked like what she got for me. Bless her heart. :-)

The only thing I was able to find anywhere on the entire tube was a date, 12 / 98, in black sharpie, on both of the bladders, so I guess that makes what ever this float tube is, it's pretty old. That makes me wonder about the general condition and safety of the urethane bladders, if that's what they even are. The puny little red valves are not confidence inspiring, to say the least.

There isn't but 1 D-ring on the top of each side, towards the front. Nothing in the area of the side compartments but a pair of velcro straps for holding a rod on each side, I guess.
It has the following attributes:
Rigid seat, 19" x 20" x 4" and rigid seat back, 13" x 19" x 2", 4 D-rings on bottom - 2 widely spaced at front and 2 narrowly spaced at rear of seat area. Help???

Here is the Craigs List ad for what she bought:
OUTCAST FAT CAT FLOAT TUBE - $100
SPECS:
[#000000]Inflated[/#000000] Size: 45" x 64", Tube Diameter: 13", Fabric: 420 PC/500 PVC,
Material Weight: 28 oz/sq. yd.
AireCell Material: Urethane, Seam Construction: Sewn, Warranty: 5
Valve Type: 1-Summit
Weight: 12 lbs., Load Capacity: 300 lbs.
Excellent Condition, used twice!
Float Tube fishing isn't my cup of tea, so maybe you can get more use out of it than I did."

Worth messin' with or should I hold out for the lottery money?
Thanks!
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#2
That there is a very early generation Fat Cat.

Looks to be in great shape and will do fine by you. The only thing is those valves really make it a PITA to inflate and deflate. Yes, those are urethane bladders, and I have seen those types of valves delaminate from urethane bladders before, but it could have been a manufacturing issue. You COULD buy some Summit valves and cut those valves out and have easy inflation and super fast deflation.

$100 seems a somewhat fair price considering new Fat Cats are $300 plus, however they have come a long way as well - especially the "Super" ones with the inflatable seats. Offer him $50 and buy it if he takes it.

That said, unless you are in a hurry to get something, look for a newish Fish Cat IV or ODC420 in the same price range ($100 for an ODC, $150 for the FishCat) used and you can't go wrong.

_SHig
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#3
Agreed, Fat Cat. I had one. That was back when Dave Scadden was designer.
I sold mine for $50.
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#4
[#000000]OK, thanks for the input.
Seeing as how the wife already bought it, I guess it'll get stashed in the garage with the rest of the junk.

Upon further examination, I found that between the 2 bladders there's a total of 5 different patches, including 2 that came off in my hands upon just touching them.
I'm just not willing to take a chance on 15 year old bladders, even if they're urethane, and the crappy valves aren't worth the time. Even my ancient WW Grigg tube has better valves than this one does.
Thanks again.

[/#000000]
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#5
You can always check with outcast and see if they have some replacement bladders.
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#6
Is it the Tube valves?
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#7
[Smile] Good news!
Upon further examination, there was only 1 pin hole in one bladder. The other "patches" I saw were new / unused and just laying loose in each bladder compartment. I guess that's a good of place as any to keep some extra patches. ;-)

I found the one leak after a partial inflation bathtub test to check for bubbles and a tight inflation followed by the soapy spray test.
I patched the one pinhole and the next day did a full, tight inflation and there has been no loss of air for the last 5 days. I think I'm good to go!

Should I be concerned about the "age" of the urethane regarding the date 12 / 98 marked on the bladders?
Does urethane have a "Use by Date?"
Any thoughts, anybody?

With the "just out of the box" appearance, the extreme cleanliness of the cover and the bladders, it certainly seems like it was used only once or twice and put away.
Maybe the one pinhole leak soured the previous owner on the "water worthiness" of using a float tube?
I still don't like the funky little red bladder valves. They inflate OK but it takes forever to deflate. Perhaps that's due to a design feature to intentionally slow the bladder deflation due to a valve diaphram failure?
Probably not, but you never know.

Any thoughts from the old pros here would be much appreciated. Thanks!

I also fired off another email to Outcast asking for guidance regarding the age of the bladders and availability of possible future replacements. Maybe I'll hear something back this time.
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#8
I have eurythane bladders from 2000 with the same valves and no problems. Mine are in a toon.
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#9
I have never heard of Urethane rotting.
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#10
I think you could easily cut out the old valves and install Summit or Halkey Roberts valves in their place. Easy inflation and fast deflation.

_SHig
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#11
Thanks for the reply, SHigSpeed! Much appreciated. [Smile]
I might try your and albinotrout's suggestion of valve replacement once I find out if replacement bladders are available for this tube and if they would come with newer valves or the same old red, 90 degree, thin tube valves.

Then there's the question of adding the newer valves, see pic below, and their top height, depending on type / brand, protruding against the inside of the cover as there isn't a cover "hole" for them to poke through as I have seen on other Outcast tubes.

At this time, my skill set regarding urethane bladders is very limited and I'd rather not tempt fate with the possibility of a botched valve replacement job without bladder replacements being available.

The bladders I saw at the Outcast website had very different shapes than my bladders. Some reasonably priced and some "very" expensive, in my opinion.

My tube bladders have the shape of a long rectangle that angles to a point at one end.

[#000000]Bladder dimension, deflated and laying flat is:[/#000000]
[#000000]77" overall length, along the top, square corner to the point. [/#000000]
[#000000]At 54" from square end's bottom corner, the bladder's seam angles up to the upper pointed end. [/#000000][#000000][#000000]The square end is 20-1/4" wide. [/#000000][/#000000][#000000]See attached pic.[/#000000]

Waiting to hear back from Outcast now. [unimpressed]
Any further ideas are always appreciated!
Thanks.
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#12
Either of the Summits or the HR valve will be relatively simple to install. You'll actually sandwich the valve backer nut inside the bladder, then baldder, skin of the tube, then the valve body. You'll need the proper wrench to tighten things up as well, but they're only a few bucks.

_SHig
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#13
The age of the bladders isn't quite as important as how it was stored. It sounds like it is in good shape. I say go for it.

I have an older Caddis tube that I still use occasionally. It has those same tube valves. They work ok and I wouldn't be too worried about them. The pain is in deflating.

If you don't have to deflate the tube fully to transport it, then I wouldn't bother. I would just transport and store it partially inflated.

The valves came with a red "fork" or "U" shaped key that you used to push in and twist to hold the valves open. Do you have that?
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#14
Here is a NRS Video on a raft valve replacement. The principles are the same.

http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/Video_Library...&loadvid=1
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#15
Thanks for the reply.
There wasn't anything like what you describe, a "Fork" or "U" shaped tool with the tube when I examined it. Nothing inside the bladder areas, pockets or anywhere else.

For deflation, I inverted the top of the end caps into the opening, a perfect fit, as designed I assume, and that keeps the valve open for the air to escape along some "thin grooves" as the outside of the cap and the inside of the valve opening have a 12 point, star shape, kind of like a "Torx" wrench or bolt head.

Now that I think about it, with the top of the cap being inserted into the opening, it's probably slowing the flow of air out of the bladder.
A "fork or key" to keep the valve open would make a lot more sense if it allowed more air to escape rather than the inverted and inserted cap. Perhaps the "cap as the key" is a fall back for deflation if the original ones were lost or misplaced???

Can those valve "keeper openers" be had or can they be fabbed up in my shop? Just need the basics, or a pic or two, in order to not make something that will booger up the valve.
I am pretty handy at that sort of stuff, got lots of different materials laying around. Being a retired Stainless Steel fabrication business owner, I was one heck of an engineer and "contraptionist" in my day, if one is allowed to toot one's own horn around here. [Wink]

In fact, I've been kicking around the idea of fabricating a Stainless Steel version of a pontoon frame that a friend of mine has. His has several cracked and broken welds in the regular steel / painted frame. Pretty crappy industrial welding if I say so myself!
I really hate it when manufacturers build their products to the "absolute minimum engineering standards" that will just barely get the product to the end of the warranty period, if then even.
OK, off my soap box now.

Thanks for sharing the info and the link to the valve replacement video, I'll check it out! [Wink]
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#16
That is exactly like the bladders I had. I personally liked the valves. Small out of the way and no chance of getting dirt in them or accidentally opening them . I say this as I have had all the valves out there on different boats.
But just me I guess.
I always thought of Urethane as the same as Fluorocarbon, it takes a very long, long time to disintegrate.

Plus the old saying, if it ain't broke.......
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#17
I forgot I had one of those keys that came with my caddis tube. Here is a pic. They aren't that big but they do work.

[inline DSCN1791.JPG]
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#18
Thanks again to all for sharing their experiences, ideas and advice. [Smile]

@ flygodess - As you said about the "little red valves," small, out of the way. I'm kinda' getting fond of the little boogers.
As it stands now, I'm gonna go with what I got, based on all the fine advice here and what I've gotten locally.
A good bud of mine, who has a lot of pontoon urathane bladder experience, came over this afternoon and checked out the bladders and he said they were good as new now that I patched the one pinhole and there is nothing to be concerned about.

@ albinotrout - Thanks for taking the time to post the pic of the valve key. I can make one of those, no prob.

Now, I gotta get started on adding some more D rings, as they are sorely lacking in the right places, and fabbing up a new, super duper rod and tool rack assembly!
[cool]
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#19
[quote Bumjelly]



Now, I gotta get started on adding some more D rings, as they are sorely lacking in the right places, and fabbing up a new, super duper rod and tool rack assembly!
[cool][/quote]

Great can't wait to see what you come up with.
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#20
[quote Bumjelly]Thanks again to all for sharing their experiences, ideas and advice. [Smile]

@ flygodess - As you said about the "little red valves," small, out of the way. I'm kinda' getting fond of the little boogers.
As it stands now, I'm gonna go with what I got, based on all the fine advice here and what I've gotten locally.
A good bud of mine, who has a lot of pontoon urathane bladder experience, came over this afternoon and checked out the bladders and he said they were good as new now that I patched the one pinhole and there is nothing to be concerned about.

@ albinotrout - Thanks for taking the time to post the pic of the valve key. I can make one of those, no prob.

Now, I gotta get started on adding some more D rings, as they are sorely lacking in the right places, and fabbing up a new, super duper rod and tool rack assembly!
[cool][/quote]


No truer words ever spoke! Good luck and PICTURES
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