Bear Lake - poor fish handling

[fishnate]

WARNING: It's long.

I'm going to respond to several things in this whole thread because not-a-purist said, "Any feed back is welcome."

not-a-purist
"We witnessed some very poor fish handling skills by other boaters..." "Other anglers would "drop (several) fish onto the bottom of the boat so hard we heard it from almost a hundred yards away, hold the fish by the gills vertically and have it out of the water for several minutes and then release the fish..." "most of the fish... were tossed from shoulder height back into the water."

I would agree that this is not likely the best treatment of a living organism. However...

"Remember, NO fingers in the gills. No need for further explanation."

While damaging the gills would be similar to puncturing a lung, the careful placement of the fingers under the gill cover isn't the same thing and can provide control of a fish (larger fish only) preventing it from hurting itself while unhooking and photographing it.

"Support the fish HORIZONTALLY. If the fish is large enough, the weight of the fish can actually separate the spine from the skull."

Yes, correct this has been documented.

"... fish can't hold its breath any longer than you can..."

Fish can't "hold" their breath at all. They simply run out of oxygen in their blood because they can't gather any. they are able to go for a minute or so without oxygen replacement, but the quicker they are returned to the water the better, no doubt.

"Don't toss them back into the water. Jump off a chair flat to your back and see how you feel..."

You can't do a direct comparison to human feeling and response, we aren't the same. Jam a hook in a humans face and crank them around for a minute or two and we would be in a hospital for a week and need counseling for a year. Dump a human out of an airplane going 100 mph at 100' off the deck and 999 out of 1000 would die. How many fish survive bear encounters and live with the deformities without surgery and without counseling. We can't compare humans to fish or other animals.

"There seems to be a loss of ethics and character."

+1,000,000+ Good luck fixing that any time soon.

wormandbobber
"Let's be clear here….good handling of fish will certainly maximize the number of released fish that survive and live to be caught again."

This is the bottom line for me!!!! +100M


"….I have seen trout handled much more rough in electrofishing, gill net, and stocking ventures than what was described above. We must remember that fisheries are managed and stocked with the idea [understanding] in mind that fish are going to die both by harvest and by handling."

Anglers shouldn't use that as an excuse for poor handling. I believe it's a responsibility to the fish, a living organism, to treat it properly for the desired outcome. Gentle care and quick release for survival OR proper cleaning, cooling and cooking for consumption.

line_dangler
"Big lakers are excellent eating..."

I have little doubt, but to me a "trophy" fish is worth more in the water to be caught and enjoyed again. Smaller fish are excellent eating and are far more common and perfect for harvest while older fish are usually a far more rare treasure. If you kill it you can't say with perfect knowledge that "I can always go catch another one tomorrow." Trophies aren't in endless supply for the demand. Everyone wants to catch the big fish but few seem to be able to let one go so it can grow up.

Not-a-Purist
"There are proven methods for how to handle and release fish. Why not use them? If it increases survival rates if only by 5 or 10%, without question it is worth it."

MasterDaad
"I think there are many anglers who don't know what proper fish handling is or the differences between the fragility of fish species."

The difficulty is getting anglers to learn and accept those reasons and methods. People are driven by self interest and for anglers, part of that is to be seen as successful. To be seen with the big fish or the heavy stringer is vital to some (which is legal and fine). Get em while the getting is good. For me the thrill of the catch is most important. A few years ago my oldest son (18 YO) caught & released his biggest LM bass ever, a 21" brute. His biggest previous was 16". He had no problem releasing it and ever since he talks about going back to catch it again. Well, last year I caught & released my largest LM bass from the same lake, another 21" brute. definitely not the same fish, but now my youngest son is talking about going and catching it. He has the real opportunity because it's likely still in there. If I had killed it by rough handling or harvest, he'd be saying, "I HOPE there's another one left in there for me." If you're going to release them, I view it as your responsibility to do so in a way that maximizes their survival so they can be enjoyed again and again.
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[not-a-purist]

Fishnate,

Thank you for the feedback and comments. I agree with you whole heartedly. You made excellent points, especially about the bass. Can't agree more. Hopefully in ten years my boy can catch a cutt we released the other day. It was only about 16 or 17 inches ling but had ENORMOUS shoulders! It'll be a true giant if it survives that long. My whole thought was, "i hope my boy can catch him when they grow up."
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[Kent]

[quote not-a-purist]Fishnate,

Hopefully in ten years my boy can catch a cutt we released the other day. It was only about 16 or 17 inches ling but had ENORMOUS shoulders! It'll be a true giant if it survives that long. My whole thought was, "i hope my boy can catch him when they grow up."

[/quote]

Cutthroat trout are not an exceptionally long lived fish. Depending on the subspecies a mature trout may live anywhere from 6-8 years (Behnke, 1992). ([url "http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/accounts/Oncorhynchus_clarkii/#b09d05f0f51f7c5822e36a7422897830"]Behnke, 1992[/url])
Nice thought, but cutts typically only live 6 to 8 years.
Cutthroat trout are not an exceptionally long lived fish. Depending on the subspecies a mature trout may live anywhere from 6-8 years (Behnke, 1992). ([url "http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/accounts/Oncorhynchus_clarkii/#b09d05f0f51f7c5822e36a7422897830"]Behnke, 1992[/url])
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[cuthroat_guy]

The Bear Lake morph differs slightly from fluvial populations of Bonneville cutthroat trout in both biology and ecology. The Bear Lake morph reaches a larger size, and has both a longer maximum life span (~10-11 years) and later age of maturity (typically > 5 years) than fluvial populations (Nielson and Lentsch 1988; Behnke 2002). The Bear Lake morph feeds primarily on terrestrial insects and zooplankton at small sizes, switching to piscivory at larger sizes. Fishes make up ~95% of the diet of adults in Bear Lake (Nielson and Lentsch 1988; Behnke 2002).

Nice thought, bigger lakes also tend to make fish live a little longer

Would never believe some of the cutts I have caught on big blue were only 6-8 years old
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[sliverslinger]

n-a-p,

Thanks for posting this. I too was out on the Bear on Saturday and saw the same things going on. As far as the boat handling was concerned, I was amazed at how brazen people were in how close they would come to everyone boat!! It was unreal! The "...if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.." attitude was off the charts that day. I too could of spit in multiple boats, multiple times.

I agree with you, the fish handling I also saw was despicable. One boat in particular was the worst. I think I, and everyone else was watching them more because of the amount of fish these guys put in their boat, along with trying to not get run over by them! I have never seen one boat catch so many fish in a day over there! I have no problem tipping my hat to another fisherman when they are doing well because it usually means they have earned that kind of a day the hard way, especially on Bear Lake, and I commend them for that. I would bet that I was fishing the same area as you because I too was watching when that big cutt was landed and dropped to the bottom of the boat while still in the net! I was thinking that it was just a mistake, but after watching fish after fish tossed over their deck rails I bet it was not.

But, along with you, I hope posts like this will help educate all of us because I honestly think that if this kind of practice continues that here in the not too distant future we as sportsmen will regret not speaking up. No fishery can absorb that kind of slothful, destructive pressure and not expect to see significant negative impacts.

Tight lines.
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[jacksonlaker]

I was hoping this thread would go away but it hasn't ! If you really, really care about the fish then don't go fishing. You can handle the fish like your newborn son, kiss it on the head, swim a while with it in the water but the truth is you don't know if that fish you released is going to live. You may think it will be fine, but you DON'T KNOW. Catch and release guys always think they don't kill any fish, but even if you had a 5 percent mortality rate, all those fishermen letting fish go are still killing fish. By definition, catch and release fishing is basically tricking a living creature into thinking it is feeding on something, impaling it on a hook attached to a line while it fights for its life, not knowing at all what is happening, being pulled out of its natural enviornment, the only place it can survive,...all for the sole purpose of your enjoyment. We don't do this to any other animals. I rarely kill any fish, but wonder how many die anyway ??
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[TroutBumDave]

This makes less than zero sense. Because some fish die when they are released it makes it ok to just kill them or mishandle them indiscriminately? If that's not what you're saying then what was the point of your post? You hoped this thread would go away because the discussion of proper handling techniques is bad?
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[up2nogood]

Ya, kind of missed the point of that post, sure we all are going to kill a fish unintentional , but handled right they should be okay. I try to release mine in the water, when fishing from my pontoon boat. Never touching them , or using the net.
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[fishnate]

[quote jacksonlaker]If you really, really care about the fish then don't go fishing... you don't know if that fish you released is going to live... Catch and release guys always think they don't kill any fish... but even if you had a 5 percent mortality rate... I rarely kill any fish, but wonder how many die anyway ??[/quote]

I'll start with your last statement -- you rarely kill any fish? After all you said previously are you serious? I get it, you rarely intentionally kill any fish.

Well news flash -- all fish will die with or without human intervention so we can all breathe easier knowing that. You are correct that no matter what, I can never KNOW for SURE if the fish I release will live but I know dang sure that 100% of the fish that I don't release will die and I'm reasonably sure that any fish I tear the gills out of or drop kick or roll around in the dirt or "admire" for 5+ minutes, etc. etc. etc won't be worth releasing back into it's environment to "live" another day. The person releasing a fish that has been poorly handled I'm sure gets a nice warm fuzzy feeling but he/she didn't do the fish any favors. I figure 5% mortality would be great for C&R but the guy's in question here are likely pushing the 85%+ mortality rate. I know of numerous fish my friends and I have caught multiple times due to obvious and destinct markings so I know it works when anglers are reasonably careful with the fish they catch. Yep I acknowledge I certainly kill a few but I do everything I can, short ot quiting this addiction, to assure the health of the fish I release. I take that back, I do quit fishing certain waters that may be too warm to release cold water species effectively. If he won't live, I eat him or find someone who will.
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[bearlaker7]

We just have a bunch of old farts that fish Bear Lake that don't have anything else better to do then just watch everyone else fish so the have something to gossip about.
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[drpepper]

I must confess, on a past trip to big blue I caught one of the nicest cutthroats I had ever caught, in the process of trying to get it out of the net carefully to release it because it still had its fins, and was not a keeper, I ended up with one barb through my thumb one still in the fish and one tangled in the net, at that point all carefulness ended, I put the fish in the bottom of the boat and sat on it to try and hold it still while I found my pliers to cut the hook where it was connected to the fish and my thumb. after a short battle we were separated and because it was an illegal fish to keep, I tossed it over the side not really caring if it survived or not. so sometimes its just not possible to do everything the right way. I spent the next while trying to push the hook the rest of the way through my thumb to get it out.
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[cuthroat_guy]

Maybe try a single hook lure, or replace the treble hook with a single hook on your lure,
Save ya from the dreaded (finger hooked) ,
I quit using trebles on trout years ago, when I gutted a small rainbow by just trying to remove the treble hook ,

But do what ya want , I by no means am telling anyone what to do[]

I have enjoyed this post, too much surprise I thought it would have been locked by now with some or threatening talk.
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[pookiebar]

well heck just to throw my 2 cents in for what it's worth, and cause everyone else has. I do agree with what the OP said in the beginning, carefully handling a fish is best. That being said though, fish can survive a lot more then most people think. Particularly when conditions are right, I.e. cold water, cold air, and a slowed metabolism as a result of all this dang cold. Fish will metobolize the oxygen in their blood slower when they are cold, so for all the worriers, take at least a little comfort that the mis handled fish was caught on a cold winters day, from water that was just above freezing. If it had been summer the fish would have a lower chance of survival.

Additionally, I have seen fish that looked like they were torn in half then glued back together and somehow they survived. Cold water fish, particularly of the salmonoid family are pretty hardy, so I would bet that fish is fine. Like I said just my 2 cents.
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[CoyoteSpinner]

well excuuuuuse me! But a true die hard C&R dedicated angler would have just nipped his finger off to save that fish! And then some other helpful fish would likely go for that finger tip, and maybe even remove the hook, saving the first from sufferage.

Sorry - I just had another row with the basshuggers united over a legal basket. Doesn't matter that the +14 and up club went for a swim, with a half dozen teens made the journey home. Just loading up my buckets I guess.

Trout are wimps, catfish can take a licking, and keep on kicking. Carp are indestructible! Unfortunately.

There never is a sure thing on releasing a fish, but best efforts can be - well, just that. Especially a water that has trophy fish, or slots, or protected fish - extra caution is due.

Does anyone practice catch and release birding? Or underwater spearfishing - for that matter? [crazy]

[CoyoteSpinner]

[quote Pharticus][quote line_dangler][#000000][font "Times New Roman"][size 3]Catch a big one and take it home ant try. [fishin][]
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Have you seen Coyote's fish? His trophy catches aren't even big enough to tempt a Lake Trout into snacking! [][/quote]


Hey - I resemble that remark! How are your hands doing these days? Hurting so good? You know what they say - a pair is a two-some, a trio a three-some, but we know why they call you HandSome! [:p]

PS I literally Photoshopped this:
[inline N2.TrophyShot.jpg]

[morcey2]

I don't know about all that other stuff, but as soon as someone starts throwing around a hi-faluting word like "fluvial", it time for someone to get educated. I get my flu shot every year and I guess that they get if out of the fluvial, but I always feel a little sick for a couple days afterwards.

Or, all of you could be like me and suck at fishing so bad that C&R mortality is a non issue because you gotta C before you can R.
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[cuthroat_guy]

Ok ?????

Yeah, go ahead and continue getting your flu shot, sounds like you also drink alot of flouride too.....

But we were talking about fish!!
The argument was how long a bear lake cutthroat lives,10-12 years
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[morcey2]

[quote cuthroat_guy]Ok ?????

Yeah, go ahead and continue getting your flu shot, sounds like you also drink alot of flouride too.....

But we were talking about fish!!
The argument was how long a bear lake cutthroat lives,10-12 years[/quote]

It's called humor. It used to happen here occasionally.....
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[cuthroat_guy]

sounds like you also drink alot of flouride too.....

It's called humor. It used to happen here occasionally.....

That is humor, in fact it's hilarious[]
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[TroutBumDave]

[quote morcey2]years

It's called humor. It used to happen here occasionally.....[/quote]

You must be new here. Any sarcasm and/or humor needs to be bracketed in {green} TEXT {/green} or else. OR ELSE! (and you need to use instead of those silly pointy ones)

dude - you need to learn to edit yerself, oh wait - I guess that's our job. You start flinging them square brackets around willy-nilly, and the system is going to start thinking you're saying something you didn't mean

[url "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk[/url]
[url "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk "][inline "Using that word.jpg"][/url]