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Since we argue so much about keeping fish and why you shouldn't who would be in favor of slot limits. For the sake of argument say they are waived for catch and release tournaments. An example for smallmouth: 5 fish total over 12 inches, none between 16&22 inches, 1 over 22". Do you think it would benefit the fishery, basically take the little guys but give the others a chance to reach trophy size. I'd give up catching 100 15 inchers for 1 24" trophy. I know a lot of Walleye lakes in the midwest do this and people mostly follow it. My solution for poaching, lose everything you have with when caught, boat rods, gear, fishing license, no one will risk that much for a fish that cost 10 dollars at albertsons.
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I totally agree with that idea. Dont stop with bass though. The crappie, perch, bluegill and catfish would also do well with a limit like that. Idaho is decades behind the rest of the country on size and creel limits in my opinion. Lets take bluegill for example (I am a huge fan being from the midwest). I dont think folks realize how much the population of those lil buggers affects the rest of the ecosystem. It is very easy for them to get out of wack with over harvest, under harvest (of themselves and predator species), loss of spawning area (like the dredging and cutting of trees at cottonwood or folks using every lil sandy bank at CJ as a swimming beach) and things of the like. I realize I am not a biologist and the water systems up here are differant than Missouri but I find it hard to believe that Idaho is the only state that has "self regulating" populations of panfish and catfish with no involvement from fish and game.
p.s. This is probably gonna get pretty ugly
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Watch the video on the cj fish taco thread, it's an eye opener. This year has been amazing I've caught dozens of 3 & 4 lb smallies. Gonna start eating a few shakers. Haven't caught a nice bluegill in years, but I don't fish for em. Remember sunfish aren't native this side of the divide. Massacre has slot limits and there are some toads up there, not uncommon to have 16 lb bag with 4 fish.
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it was a pretty good video.
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Slot limits work if there's enforcement. Milner was just about wiped out a couple years ago due to folks keeping everything. It's fishing well this year, finally.
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Im not sure about any other lakes in the area since I live next to CJ that is the only place I fish. FG is all over that like like white on rice. I get checked at least once a month down there. I would be willing to bet if they put limits on fish there would be enforcement at the high traffic areas. It just isnt cost affective for fish and game to check out every angler at every wet spot in the region. I say put limits on stuff, put a heafty price tag on tickets for breaking said limits and use the money to improve the outdoors.
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I think I may start keeping a few of the rats as well. Would be interesting to maybe see F&G review and revise their slot limit at Oxbow for bass to something like this. Currently 2 fish/day, none b/w 12-16 inches so you can keep the short ones and the big ones. Results? Easy to have 100+ fish days there, rare to catch fish over 3.5lbs and the vast majority of fish in the 1.25 to 1.5 lb range.
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Sections of the middle fork of the boise have slot restrictions. Funny thing is, past five years I have caught more fish and bigger fish in the areas outside of where the slot limits are.
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Here are my thoughts on this....
Ok...the first thing you would hope to assume is that fisherman in general would know a little bit about their quarry....feeding habits....habitat preferences...etc. What most probably don't think about or realize...is that there is a huge difference between how many eggs a large adult can squeeze out vs a juvenile. It can vary from just 10's of thousands to hundreds of thousands. So...if you know that...it is completely irresponsible to keep large fish and throw back the smaller ones regularly. Yeah' I'll admit that its a pain to clean three smaller fish to get the same meat quantity as one large...however....if you know that one large fish can spawn 400000+ eggs compared to 50000...its logical to leave the pigs and consume the juvies. Then if you understand that a pig has better genes than a juvie and the chances of more eventual pigs coming from the pig are way higher than a runt...that should sway your thinking as well.
Managing a fishery is actually very difficult...having to know intimately every species in the water is essential. For example....bass typically spawn only once per year...but many panfish species may spawn up to 5....so right off the top you have the potential issue of over crowding of panfish. That can potentially have major consequences for the bass....panfish eating bass fry can seriously raise mortality and limit the number of bass being produced. More fish means more food is required to not only sustain them but also grow them. So limiting the over production of panfish is absolutely necessary. Over harvesting large bass diminishes the gene pool quality. Eventually you can have a fishery overloaded with stunted fish.
So keep that in mind when you fish and do what's best for the fishery...not your freezer. If you find your catching tons of small panfish...and only an occasional pig...keep the smaller ones not the pigs..most likely the food supply is being eaten up by the juvies and you won't see more pigs if that happens until the population is reduced.
As far as slot limits go...its an effective way to protect the pigs and control the pop of juvies...that's really the only purpose of it. If F&G determines the need for a slot is there...it needs to be adhered to.
I know Arrow rock had s huge pop of squaw fish and it was obviously having a negative impact on survivability and growth rates of other species...I always killed every single one I caught fishing Kokanee...but it wasn't until the BOR did an extensive Bull Trout tagging study that the problem was addressed somewhat...from what they told me, they killed a huge number of squaws during the summer of tagging. Last year it was apparent they had because the sqauwfish pop was way down...
In closing...I for one don't keep bass...however...if the pop got too big and stunted I would keep juvies just to thin the herd in a positive way. Tight lines fellas!
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I agree. I know not everyone likes catfish but a lot of us do. The Red River in Manitoba has a good program and the average Channel cat below the lockport dam is 30 pounds. If I remember right there is no limit under 24". Above that you can keep one per year. I don't know if I would like it that stringent but I would go with what other states say, and do one fish per day over 28". What I like about that is if you catch a state record you can keep it to enter the fish. If you accidentally injure a large fish and it is not going to make it your good to go. I have my own guide lines that I try to stick with. I don't like keeping any fish over 24". If I injure one or something I will keep them but I try to stay under that. I also never keep more than I can use that should be a given. I also try to only keep males if I can. In the spring it is easier to tell the difference but even at that I still mess up once and a while.
What kills me is the guys that have 30,40,50 fish and a lot of them are over 24". Nothing was thrown back. I did that once. My first time fishing for cats in Brownlee I was on a roll and we clobbered them. I have felt bad about that ever since.
The catfishing in Idaho is amazing. Our Catch rates here in Idaho are as high or higher than a lot of the southern states that are famous for catfishing. But we don't have a super over all size. I read a report that Idaho has over 30% harvest on the overall population every year. With that kind of harvest I do believe that a harvest limit and a size limit is in order. Everyone would like to see carp removed. Large cats do that but they have to get big. A 20" catfish is a perfect size to eat. But that fish is not much threat to a carp over 3 or 4" long. A 40" cat is hell on large carp.
Flatheads are listed as a Trophy fish. Yet they are not treated any different than a carp. Flatheads are slow to grow and they are limited in reproduction. If any fish in the state deserves protection it is Flatheads. And it is flatheads that have the best potential to remove carp from the system. Ron
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What about Bass tourny's?
Seems to me tourny's would do a heck of lot a damage to the the big fish.
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You know Ron...I could definitely learn a few things from you about cats...whenever I've gone after them I have lackluster results....if they are really that prolific here I definitely must have a poor technique...lol. I do have a passion for Bass fishing and I guess that's why I'm successful at it...I study their behavior and habits a lot. It sure helps...I suppose if I did so for cats I'd be more successful.
Also...the only fish I keep a lot of are ones I know need the harvesting or like kokanee they are stocked and or die anyway...I have had people in IN who let me fish in their ponds for bass but only if I promised to catch a pile of BG for pop control...I would do it even if I didn't want them myself and give them away. Management of fisheries is a pain...
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Deshka....I think most tourneys are well managed...usually they don't have them during a spawn...if they do
...I would expect them to verify the fish and immediately release them to return to their beds...I'm not a fan of tourneys during a spawn...however...tourneys in general are pretty safe since the fish are kept safe in a functional live well and released after weigh in...my only concern is pulling fish off a bed and driving them all over the lake and releasing them miles from their bed...bad news there.
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Thanks Jimbo.
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I agree, taking a bass off a bed at 6 am and hauling it around in a livewell is asinine. I tournament fish 3 times a month and no one takes better care of the fish than bass clubs. Spent the day at Anderson ranch and it's rumored the bank fisherman have been killing 5 lbrs. This low water year has the fish accessible from shore. Caught lots of pound and a half fish, if the big girls are getting ate we might have a couple poor years. The snake river drainage is awesome, we have prespawn fish for 3 months.
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All I can say is Wow....that breaks my heart. What short sighted selfish ass clowns...I don't even really think pissing off a bedded fish into biting is all that ethical in the first place...but not releasing it back to its bed is criminal...I had a great day on top water down at Swan last Thursday...I usually don't fish by myself and was entertained by realizing how much I talk to the fish...but over 40 landed in 4 hours without injuries...great time. Thanks for your comments...I enjoy the dialogue with fellow sportsman!
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"Then if you understand that a pig has better genes than a juvie and the chances of more eventual pigs coming from the pig are way higher than a runt...that should sway your thinking as well. " Jimbo, you are off point on this. A juvenile may very well have the same genes as a larger fish, just 1 or 2 or 3 generations later. If a mama fish that is genetically superior, all of it's relatives carry those genes.
A trophy sized fish has most likely passed those genetics on to several generations of progeny. As far as keeping huge fish, it all depends on the mindset of the fisherman. I don't generally keep bass. When I fish for perch, crappie, bluegills etc, what I keep is dependent on the lake I am fishing, but generally those fish go in the bucket. they taste great, and since I never keep more than 20 or so, I am not hurting the population. In general you are right the best thing we can do for perch and crappie is keep a lot of them, as they overpopulate easily...
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[quote Mojo1]"Then if you understand that a pig has better genes than a juvie and the chances of more eventual pigs coming from the pig are way higher than a runt...that should sway your thinking as well. " Jimbo, you are off point on this. A juvenile may very well have the same genes as a larger fish, just 1 or 2 or 3 generations later. If a mama fish that is genetically superior, all of it's relatives carry those genes.
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I hear what you're saying Mojo...what I mean by that is that a big ole pig...who has beaten the odds of dying long enough to get to that size, most assuredly has great genetics that would be best passed on to progeny...now a juvie may have good genes as well but one couldn't possibly know that for certain...time will tell...but if you plan to keep and eat bass...why would you want to keep a large fish with proven genetics as opposed to a untested juvenile? That is the point here...and as far as wanting to have a trophy bass mounted? In most cases replicas that look incredible can be made from measurements and pics...the fish itself is not needed. This is all about conservation and fishery management. Sorry for my lack of clarity on that point Mojo...LOL
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That cleared it up.
As for mounting a fish, i do not know why anyone would do a skin mount. They inevitably go bad over time, and a replica (if done by a quality person) looks better and lasts forever..
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That is what I have thought, a good replica would be much better. Ron
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