Cleaning fish at Strawberry

[dubob]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]Based on an earlier thread discussion regarding the cleaning of fish at Strawberry, I decided to do a little digging on the subject for my own clarification. The Guidebook has the following statement:[/size][/#800000][/font]
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At Strawberry Reservoir, Scofield Reservoir, Lost Creek Reservoir and Panguitch Lake, you may not fillet trout and salmon, and you may not remove their heads or tails while in the field or in transit.

[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]That statement is a summary of what Utah Administrative Code R657. (Natural Resources, Wildlife Resources), -13. (Taking Fish and Crayfish), -16. (Possession and Transportation of Dead Fish and Crayfish) states.[/size][/#800000][/font][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3] Specifically, sub-section (1)(b) Trout and/or salmon taken at Strawberry Reservoir, Scofield Reservoir and Panguitch Lake, and smallmouth bass taken at Jordanelle may not be filleted and the heads or tails may not be removed in the field or in transit. This rule (and this whole section for that matter) has no mention about Lost Creek as the Guidebook does, so I have no clue where that reference comes from. Be that as it may.[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]However, tucked into sub-section (1)(a) of this rule is the following: At all waters except Strawberry Reservoir, Scofield Reservoir, Panguitch Lake, Jordanelle Reservoir and Lake Powell, game fish may be dressed, filleted, have heads and/or tails removed, or otherwise be physically altered after completing the act of fishing or reaching a fish cleaning station, camp, or principal means of land transportation. It is unlawful to possess fish while engaged in the act of fishing that have been dressed or filleted. This shall not apply to fish that are processed for immediate consumption or to fish held from a previous day's catch.[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]I called and talked with a DWR Law Enforcement Captain who was kind enough to email me the information above and we had a discussion about this topic. He was of the professional opinion that the sentence - This shall not apply to fish that are processed for immediate consumption or to fish held from a previous day's catch. – would allow a person to actually fillet a legal fish while camping at Strawberry if the fish was going to be ‘immediately’ consumed. He did not explain and I did not ask what the definition of ‘immediately consumed’ meant.[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]I’ve got a written request in to the Chief of Law Enforcement for his opinion on this matter but suspect it will be the same as the Captain I talked to this morning. However, the Chief is on vacation this week but will return next week. I’ll ask him for a clarification of what immediately consumed means when he returns to work.[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[OCF]

I appreciate you doing all of this homework for me - Thanks. It is an extreme hassle to clean fish at Strawberry when camping if you like your fish filleted. Between the regs of the DWR and American Land & Leisure (not wanting you to clean fish at their hydrants).

I just hope the conservation officer writing tickets that day understands the reasonableness of this interpretation. I would think "immediate consumption" would mean that day or within 24 hours - My 2 cents!
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[dubob]

[quote OCF]I would think "immediate consumption" would mean that day or within 24 hours - My 2 cents![/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]And I would also conclude that any reasonable person would think that. [cool][/#800000][/font]
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[mtncat1]

immediately means you are preparing to cook or otherwise consume your catch. it does not mean to filet then eat the next day or when you arrive home . the rule are pretty simple to follow as stated in the guide book.[]
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[dubob]

[quote mtncat1]immediately means you are preparing to cook or otherwise consume your catch. it does not mean to filet then eat the next day or when you arrive home . the rule are pretty simple to follow as stated in the guide book.[][/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Actually Sir, it isn't 'pretty simple'. The statement about immediate consumption isn't even in the Guidebook. You will only see it by researching the actual administrative rules that the Guidebook is based on. And as I stated earlier, the phrase 'immediately consumed' has not been defined, in writing, in the administrative rules. Therefore, it could mean anything a CO or a judge decide it is based on their own criteria.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Times New Roman"][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]All of these are synonyms for immediately: straightaway, directly, promptly, quickly, as fast as possible, speedily, and as soon as possible (ASAP). And to my mind at least, none of those synonyms conveys a meaning of instantly. Any of those definitions could mean within several hours. I don’t know for sure and that’s why I’m having some conversations with the folks in charge of enforcement. The definition of ‘immediately consumed’ will be whatever the enforcement folks say it is and so far I don’t have that information. But I will have it shortly and I’ll be more than happy to pass it along to y’all when I get it.[/#800000][/font] [/font]

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[mtncat1]

bob it's not sir it's rich. you can make it as simple or as complex as you want but if what you are getting at is that you what to fillet your catch before you go home. you are not going to get the answer your fishing for.you cannot filet fish or remove heads or tails at strawberry. it's is that simple. if you are preparing to cook the fish you can filet it. asap means that say you prepared the fish for cooking and you had some kind of accident that prevented you from cooking it you wouldn't be guilty of a infraction. that's all that means. and if the dwr sees it differently they can site you and you can resovle it in court. I agree with you when they use an ambiguous terms in the regs. it can confuse people but common cents has to win out on this argument. no hard feeling but I don't want to have to think like a lawyer when I am supposed to be having fun. wouldn't you agree. p/s I mean no disrespect to you. [cool]
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[wiperhunter2]

It will be interesting to hear what The Man has to say but imo the only way you can filet or cut off the head and tail of a fish, at the lakes mentioned, is if you are going to a camp site and eat the fish asap that day. If you are driving home then you can only gut the fish and that is all. This is just my opinion but it does seem clear to me as well and this is how I have always done it at The Berry.
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[OCF]

[quote mtncat1]" . . . but if what you are getting at is that you what to fillet your catch before you go home. you are not going to get the answer your fishing for. . ."[cool][/quote]

This is not the debate! The question was - If I am camping at the Strawberry Bay Campground, can I fillet my fish for consumption later that day vs. gutting the fish at the cleaning station and finish filleting at the campsite (if you like your fish filleted). AL&L have signs on the water hydrants that say they do not want you washing or cleaning your fish at the hydrants. So it makes it difficult to fillet at the campsite.

Most of us camping at the reservoir want to eat the fish caught that day, so we can go out again tomorrow. So I think "consume immediately" would reasonably mean that day. I doubt a conservation officer would follow you to your campsite to make sure that cooking of the fish started immediately upon arrival.
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[dubob]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Okay, Rich it is. [][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]As OCF has pointed out, this thread is about being able to fillet the legal fish you've caught at Strawberry while still AT Strawberry so that you can prepare them for consumption that day at your Strawberry campsite. Basically, I'll stay at one of the camping areas near the SB Marina for 3 to 5 days when I fish Strawberry. I start fishing early and quit when I reach my limit in either fish, desire, or weather. Which means I could be quitting in the morning sometimes. I'd like to know that I can legally fillet at least some of my catch at the fish cleaning station (the proper place to do so), and take it back to my RV site and then consume it that evening for dinner.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]The Guidebook doesn't offer any indication that this is appropriate or legal (which to me, at least, doesn't make any sense), so I wrote Drew an email about the subject. He said he thought I would be okay to do so, but would defer to the opinion of the Chief Law Enforcement Officer, Mr. Wood. Mr. Wood is on vacation this week, so I called one of his Captain's, who provided me the information I requested that SEEMS to say I can do what I have proposed.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]But, again, 'immediately consumed' is somewhat vague and needs further clarification. So until Mr. Wood gets back to work next week, we'll have to leave it at that for the time being.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]And as well, no disrespect given or taken. Life is good. [/#800000][/font]
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[brookie]

So I have a question - a little off the subject but related. Anyone have any logic, other than "it says so in the regs" why on earth they restrict fileting kokanee and rainbows if the skin is left on for identification? Since there is no slot regulations on these, why not allow them to be fileted?
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[mtncat1]

I wonder if you could filet the salmon but not cut the filets completely off the fish just cut both sides down to the tail but leave the sides attached so when you got to where you were going you could just cut the tail to separate filets from the fish.
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[OCF]

I agree - at least regarding the kokes! If a conservation officer can't tell the difference between a kokanee skin and a cutthroat skin, maybe we need some new CO's.
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[liketrolling]

I have seen people filet Kokes at the berry and have told them they can't do that. they have never herd of that.
I take mine home to filet them, maybe I'm doing somthing wrong.
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[CoyoteSpinner]

Keep in mind these are the same enforcers that can't tell the difference between a single and double axle trailer.
But I think the nail (um, er - fish?) has been hit on the head. What's the point in not fileting or beheading the beasts?
Identification. Species and size. Kokes look quite different that their trout cousins, but the bows and cuts can be less distinct.

Bob - after my post I had to go reread too, even printed off the one page to carry with, in case there's more questions, or questionable catches being cleaned.
But - not my job man!

So my next research question is going to be, do you have to have a ROD to go fishing? Does strapping line around a soda bottle count, or does that fall into the Trot-line category? Or would it be counted as jugging if you weren't floating the jug, but just using it to coil your line? (sorry, different lake, different topic).

I would expect that IN your campsite, ready to cook - you can do whatever the hell you want once the oil in the pan is hot! Though I have had experience of occifers wandering a camp area sniffing out the wacky tobacky, and citing or hauling off campers. It was a music festival up Ogden canyon. Nothing to do with fish, oh, and did I say it was up Ogden canyon. Yah.

[dubob]

[quote brookie]So I have a question - a little off the subject but related. Anyone have any logic, other than "it says so in the regs" why on earth they restrict fileting kokanee and rainbows if the skin is left on for identification? Since there is no slot regulations on these, why not allow them to be fileted?[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]The question on the kokanee restrictions (but not the rainbow), came up in my discussion with Drew. He will bring that up for review at DWR Department meetings this year as it didn't seem to make any sense to him as well. None the less, it IS the law, it IS listed in the Guidebook, and should be observed by all of us until changed.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Distinguishing a rainbow from a cutthroat can be difficult or impossible without viewing the whole, complete fish and is discussed in the Guidebook.[/#800000][/font]
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Any trout with cutthroat characteristics (not necessarily jaw slashing) is considered to be a cutthroat trout. Slash marks under the jaw should not be used to distinguish Bear Lake cutthroat trout from rainbow trout at Strawberry. Slashing is sometimes absent on Bear Lake cutthroats and sometimes visible on rainbows. Better characteristics are deep orange pelvic and anal fins on the cutthroats, and white-tipped pink to gray-green pelvic and anal fins on the rainbows. Rainbows also have the pinkish lateral stripe on the sides (see fish descriptions beginning on page 47 of this guide for more information).

[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]From this description, you can see that IF a rainbow had a visible cutthroat characteristic, then it would be CONSIDERED a cutthroat and would be subject to the slot rules. If you fillet it, then there is no way to determine if it possibly showed a cutthroat characteristic (such as a jaw slash or deep orange fin. I know this is a stretch, but it IS possible.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Once the fish is filleted and skinned, then I don't have a clue as to how anybody outside a scientific lab could tell if the pink/orange meat came from a trout (rainbow/cutthroat) or salmon. Do any of you?[/#800000][/font]


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[brookie]

Okay, I agree with the rainbows, though they look different to me, if a bow has gill slashes it still counts as a cutt. But the Kokanee should be easy to tell. I took a newbie with me a few weeks ago that didn't know a trout from a bass when we got there. In the first two hours he could tell Cutts from Kokes with no trouble at all.
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[xberto]

I appreciate this discussion because I've wondered about the rule myself.

I "long-term" camped this month of July at Strawberry Kokanee loop. I had my Smoker and smoked 2 batches of Kokes. I gutted the fish when I caught them but filleted them at the fish cleaning station just prior to brine. I also fillet another fish that we grilled. Anyhow, I had some discussion with one of the American Land & Leisure camp hosts about my Salmon fillets. They never hinted that I was doing anything wrong.

The other thing i was wondering about is would Smoked fish, ready for consumption, count as part of your limit?
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[dubob]

[quote xberto]I appreciate this discussion because I've wondered about the rule myself.

I "long-term" camped this month of July at Strawberry Kokanee loop. I had my Smoker and smoked 2 batches of Kokes. I gutted the fish when I caught them but filleted them at the fish cleaning station just prior to brine. I also fillet another fish that we grilled. Anyhow, I had some discussion with one of the American Land & Leisure camp hosts about my Salmon fillets. They never hinted that I was doing anything wrong.

The other thing i was wondering about is would Smoked fish, ready for consumption, count as part of your limit?[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]The AL&L folks do not work for the state and probably couldn't care less about what you do with your fish at Strawberry. Some of them don't even fish and have no clue what the rules are. They are only there to watch over the campground and it's facilities.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]I don't know when possession of a game fish or game bird ceases to exist for the purposes of being part of a possession limit. I've written an email to the DWR Law Enforcement Captain I got the previous information from and asked him for a definitive answer on this question. Stay tuned![/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Are we still having fun? [laugh][/#800000][/font]
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