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As promised, here are the results of the Pelican Lake survey: http://go.usa.gov/6nz5
Questions 14–19 are missing because they asked for personal information (names, phone numbers, email addresses, etc.) from those who were willing to be on a committee to update the Pelican Lake Management Plan.
Amy Canning
Communications Specialist
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
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Thanks Amy, interesting results.
Sounds like there is a lot of support for poisoning the lake and starting over but the question is, what will the lake be managed for, Big Bass, or Big Bluegill[:/].
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I'm wondering the same thing as wiperhunter2. I don't necessarily want the lake treated with rotenone but if that is determined to be the best option so be it. Would it continue to be a bass and bluegill fishery? The biggest draw for me when I started fishing Pelican was the potential to catch a huge bluegill. The first trip that I made years ago my buddy landed an 11.5 inch bluegill (decent!) and we got into largemouth that ran from 14-18 inches long. Extremely fun through the ice and unique for Utah. I really hope it will continue to be a bass and bluegill fishery.
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Thanks for posting the results, Amy.
Pelican is an important fishery because of the potential for quality bass and bluegill. We don't have many of these types of water in this state. I hope that a working group can come up with a plan to restore Pelican to it's glory days of pie plate sized bluegill and water quality good enough to see the bottom most anywhere in the lake.
The conservation pool needs to be enforced. The DWR needs to protect the water that was paid for by the sportsmen. This has been a problem on more than a few occasions.
Thanks again for allowing the anglers to participate in a process to try and solve the problems at Pelican.
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not quite shure about question 7 some time ago there were big bass and big bluegills why is it impossible? just asking thank you
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[#484848]Good results and graphics Amy.[/#484848]
[#484848]What mechanical means would be used to remove carp?[/#484848]
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Thanks Amy for the report. I'm all for starting over with a full rotenone treatment. How many years do you think it would take for the lake to recover, with nice sized bluegill and/or largemouth?
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It's dependent on the size of the fish that is restocked. Fishing could return to normal in 1-3 years.
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I had to call in sick so I could go to Lake Powell!
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Thanks Amy for the results of the survey. Pelican needs help there is no question about it. The only question is do we have the $$ and the courage to fix the problems. The whole system needs to be looked at and proper blockage to prevent the return of the trash fish needs to be accomplished before any treatments or we are in the same bag of problems again
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I didn't get to take the survay, but pelican is the only place in utah I have ever been able to catch big bluegill, and we can already catch all the other fish other places..... I would love to see this lake turned back into a triphy bluegill fishery.
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I thought that one was kind of odd too. I know in Idaho they often manage for both. The bass eat the bluegill preventing them from stunting, and the bluegill feed the bass, allowing them to grow larger. It doesn't seem that odd. There are places not that far from Pelican that have 10"+ gills and 20"+ largemouth. It seems to work there.
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Thanks for posting AmyC. I started fishing Pelican back in the late 70's thru the ice, man I miss those big bluegill. I would like to see it treated to kill all the fish and start fresh with the bluegill. The wife and I usually made at least one ice fishing trip from Ogden each year but quit several years ago when the fishing for the nice blue gill took a dump. Thanks again for all you do.
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Thanks to everyone who participated in the survey and to those of you who followed up in this thread. I relayed your questions to a couple of our biologists and will share the answers they sent my way:
If the lake is treated with rotenone, will it still be a bass and bluegill fishery?
The anglers have definitely spoken, and it appears they want to see both bass and bluegill returned to the lake. So, yes, in the event of a rotenone treatment, these two species would be stocked in the lake.
Would Pelican be managed for large bass or large bluegill?
When we say big bass OR big bluegill, we mean large average sizes. Even with an average 13-inch bass, which we saw in our sampling in 2013, we had a few significantly larger fish in the survey. However, most bass caught were 13 inches or smaller. So when we say large bass OR large bluegill, we mean larger average sizes, not that large individuals of both species can't be present.
Right now, anglers appear to be pretty evenly split on whether they'd prefer to see larger bass or larger bluegill. We're hoping that our discussions with the angler advisory group will help us work through that question.
Why can't Pelican be managed for both trophy-sized bluegill and trophy-sized bass?
Managing a bass and bluegill fishery involves some choices. In a fishery where larger bass are desired, we need to try and achieve a population structure where about 90 percent of the fish are greater than 12 inches and only 10 percent are smaller than that length. Most of the bass would be in the 15- to 20-inch size class in this scenario. In order to produce larger bass, the bluegill population in this water would need to be dominated by individuals smaller than 6 inches to provide adequate forage for the bass.
The opposite is true for a water we wish to manage for larger bluegill. In this scenario, we would need a population structure where 80 percent of the bluegill population is larger than 6 inches and 20 percent is smaller. The bass population would need to be dominated by fish smaller than 8 inches (with only about 10 percent greater than 15 inches). Smaller bass would prey heavily on the bluegill and allow the remaining fish to grow large.
The final option for bass and bluegill management is a balanced fishery. In this case, the majority of bluegill will range between 6 and 10 inches, and the bass between 12 and 15 inches. Relatively few fish of either species will be outside these ranges.
Regardless of the management scenario chosen, a critical component to making it successful is sufficient harvest, either through anglers or other predators. Without adequate harvest, these very productive species will quickly overpopulate and return to the smaller sizes we have seen in many of our reservoirs.
What mechanical methods would be used to remove carp?
To remove carp with mechanical methods, we typically use gill netting or electrofishing.
How long would it take for the lake to come back after a rotenone treatment?
The fishery would be decent the year after a rotenone treatment and good within two or three years.
Amy Canning
Communication Specialist
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
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I don't want to offend anybody but here is my take on pelican lake leave it alone..the state of Utah dictates that the use of chems is the way to go.. kill it and go.. that dosent hold water with me is there a reason why other states that have the same problem they don't resort to killing everything?? the state of Utah used 75% of the worlds rotonote killing the berry and its about the same as it was before.. I would like to see some form of management before we kill another lake just my opp.n thanks
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Thank you for taking the time to post here Amy. It is really nice to see this information and the results of the surveys.
When a decision is made please keep us up to date !
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sorry to ya all and sorry to pat it was not my intent to bag on pat I just used his reply as we all do I don't have hav issue with pat or anybodyelse on this site I just cant stand the way the dwr is pushing us that is my view or oppion thank you I AM NOT BAGGING ON THE D W R I just want a real answer for my question and it is ...,,.,., why do we have to kill lakes instead of trying to manage them ,,,,that was my question sorry wypr hun er if I ioffended you you have mutch to learn I am sorry
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Did you participate in the survey zman?
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In my decade plus search for monster 20in plus lmb, I have found a good number of waters that grow 20in lmb. It seems from empirical analyses that bluegills are a poor food source for largemouth bass in my observation. Almost any other forage fish and crayfish are much more well suited to weight gain and overall health and size. Bluegill further host a parasite which has an intermediate stage in the liver, and the mature parasitic worm can fill up the bass's internal cavity by the thousands. Almost everywhere bass feed heavily on bluegill, they remain skinny due to the parasite. Holmes creek has the most aggressive population of this parasite and used to have some of the skinniest lmb. Now they are somewhat better health. The reason is the advent of rainbow trout plantings. Mantua since the treatment has never produced big 20 in lmb again. Girth is very mediocre there. The culprit is the lack of sufficient fattening forage. They are eating mainly bluegills and small perch. The trout stocking there is insufficient to replace the former excellent forage chubs. Hyrum has some of the fattest lmb anywhere. All of them are stuffed to the brim with rainbow and tiger trout fingerlings. I had a single medium 15in run of the mill lmb spit out 3 rainbows and two tiger trout once.
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I wonder if some of the waters I fish don't have the parasite in the bluegill. In many of my favorite reservoirs, the bass gorge on bluegill. I catch most of my larger fish on bluegill imitations, and the bass often spit up bluegill or I can see their tails protruding from the throats of the bass I catch. They aren't skinny either.
Here are some gill gorgers from October.[inline "20 inch small.jpg"][inline "19 inch small.jpg"]
[inline "21 inch small.jpg"]
There are more pics, but I don't want to slow this thread down too much with pics.
This reservoir does receive some stocking of trout, though not heavily. I never catch any trout of size there, so maybe the bass do eat a lot of them. Perhaps I'll finally force myself to throw some of the rainbow imitating lures I've purchased and see what happens there. I've been meaning to give it a try, but then I end up going with methods I know work for me. You definitely have me thinking.
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Thanks for the update...
Kill it and restore it! Get the da^^n carp outa there. It's a travesty it's in the state that it is, but if it can be fixed then get it done.
I want to be able to take my kids out there and teach them the art of sight fishing for bass and bluegill. That will never happen until those da^^n carp are removed.
When would the treatment occur? Hopefully in the spring before the bluegill and bass spawn.
Where are the bass and bluegill coming from?
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