Be sharp...stay sharp

[TubeDude]

[size 3][font "Times New Roman"] [size 1]There’s been some recent posts on auger blades. Also been some discussion on filleting and using sharp knives for cutting perch strips. That got Tomegun to PM me that he was not allowed around sharp things (sharp wit excluded). He did acknowledge that he needed to acquire and maintain a sharp knife.[/size][/font][/size]

[font "Times New Roman"][size 1] There is no other recreational pursuit that requires having a sharp knife, more than fishing. Yeah, you need good knives for hunting, but you use them less. Anglers are always cutting something, and sharp knives make the job easier and safer. Most accidental cuts are the result of having to apply too much pressure to dull knives.[/size][/font]

[font "Times New Roman"][size 1] My fishing family in Idaho taught me young that you needed a good knife and that you should learn how to sharpen and care for it. In later years, I worked as a fishing guide, a commercial fisherman and as a deckhand on party boats in California. Collecting, using and maintaining sharp knives has always been a big thing with me.[/size][/font]

[font "Times New Roman"][size 1] There are some fishing knives that have a serviceable edge right out of the store. Rapalas are pretty good to use without much touch-up. Most of the knives I buy are not put into use until I work them over with my sharpening tools for awhile. I first make sure the edge is a thin taper, rather than a sharp “wedge” angle. This sometimes takes awhile with a diamond sharpener or a good rough stone. It also requires that you maintain a constant angle while you stroke the knife across the sharpening surface.[/size][/font]

[font "Times New Roman"][size 1] Once the cutting angle is right, I use a series of two or three progressively smoother stones to make the final edge, and finish it off with a steel or a ceramic rod. If you have good steel in your blade, and put a good edge on it, you can maintain it through a lot of use by touching it up with the steel periodically. However, if you fillet a couple of big batches of thick boned fish, without touching up the blade, you will likely have to take it back to the sharpener for a new edge.[/size][/font]

[font "Times New Roman"][size 1] I have a bunch of knives, from thin little blades to big butcher knives…and a couple of electrics too. Wouldn’t think of filleting with only a regular knife any more. You do not need more than a couple of good knives to handle most fish cutting chores. One with a blade at least 7 to 9 inches long…and flexible…for routine filleting and skinning. The other would be a short blade with a sharp point, for cutting out rib cages and preparing bait strips.[/size][/font]

[font "Times New Roman"][size 1] Once you acquire some good knives, do not keep them in the kitchen drawers with other knives or utensils…especially if they are not in a protective sheath. Knocking against other kitchen goodies in the drawer will ding the edges of your fishing knives quickly. The other reason to keep your fishing knives secluded is because other family members tend to use them for other things, like digging in the garden, cutting boxes and other little “projects” that ruin your hard-won edge.[/size][/font]

[font "Times New Roman"][size 1] Every knife nut has their own preferred tools for sharpening and maintaining a good edge on their favorite blades. You can spend a lot on diamond sharpeners and fancy tools. But you don’t need to, if you learn how to hold the knife at the right angle and make the right kind of strokes. I do not recommend the electric “sharpeners” that come on can openers or are sold as stand-alone units. They are okay for helping housewives keep a working edge on kitchen knives, but cannot produce a good taper and edge for fishing applications.[/size][/font]

[font "Times New Roman"][size 1] You also do not need more than one good “two-sided” carborundum sharpening stone. Use the coarse side for the heavy work of the initial preparation…and working out major dings. Use the fine side to complete the fine edge work, prior to using a steel or ceramic rod. Diamond sharpeners are good for removing lots of steel, like the coarse edge of your stone, but should not be used every time you need to touch up the blade. If you cut away very much metal every time you sharpen your knives, they will soon develop uneven lines along the cutting edge, where you use the sharpener the most.[/size][/font]

[font "Times New Roman"][size 1] I’m attaching a couple of pics of my setup. One will be of the knives I use the most. The other will be some of the tools I use for sharpening and maintaining the edges. There are no high-end knives or tools in the pics. Don't need to spend a lot to get good blades and keep them sharp.[/size][/font]

[font "Times New Roman"][size 1] I have always prided myself on being able to produce literally a “razor sharp” fishing knife. I actually test my final edge by shaving my arm. When I worked on fishing boats, my arms always looked like I waxed them.[/size][/font]

[font "Times New Roman"][size 1] Here are a couple of good links to some websites that have good instructional info on this subject: [/size][/font][url "http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/sharpen/instruct.html"][font "Times New Roman"][#800080][size 1]http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/s...truct.html[/size][/#800080][/font][/url][font "Times New Roman"][size 1] [/size][/font]

[url "http://www.buckknives.com/sharpening.php"][font "Times New Roman"][#800080][size 1]http://www.buckknives.com/sharpening.php[/size][/#800080][/font][/url][font "Times New Roman"][size 1] [/size][/font]

[font "Times New Roman"][size 1] Anybody else like to contribute what kind of knives they use and how they keep them in top working condition?[/size][/font]
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[tomegun]

[#000080][size 2]AH, Mr Tubedude sir, Do you have a goalie mask hidden somewhere? Its public knowledge that you have lived in numerous places. We need some dates to go with the places. It is believed that this information will help in the investigations on a variety of disappearances. Also, CSI would like to have a look at your Knives. Where is Jamie Lee Curtis when ya need her[] [/size][/#000080]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][size 2]Mr. Gun, I assure you that the most well equipped and sophisticated forensics teams would succeed in finding only fishy DNA on my "operating instruments."[/size]

[size 2]That was not always true, but it is of the knives I currently own. In the distant past, while working on a party boat, one of the passengers observed my shaving my arm and tried to do the same on himself, with one of my knives. He succeeded in slicing off about three inches of skin. Great weight loss program.[/size]

[size 2]On another occasion, while on a horseback packin trip with my dad, he asked to borrow my little Rapala to "gill and gut" a trout. I warned him that it was probably a lot sharper than the electrician's pocket knife he usually carried. Discounting my warning, he proceeded to run the knife right through the trout and into his thumb. [/size]

[size 2]I do joke about learning how to perform prefontal lobotomies through the armpit...to reduce scarring. On some idiots, who borrow my knives and trash the edges, I am tempted to do the lobotomy through one of the lower bodily orifices. Man, that would smart...and maybe smarten up someone who borrows a knife to cut bait against a metal surface.[/size]

[size 2]Love the CSI programs. Give me a lot of new ideas on concealing the evidence of my crimes. I have enough cut up "catfish bait" and need new ways of disposing of fishing buddies who abuse my good nature.[/size]
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[tomegun]

[#000080][size 2]First, Doug Miller had a guy show how to fillet perch on last night(where was he thursday night!).[/size][/#000080]

[#000080][size 2] Secondly, there is no Law enforcement agency in the country that has the budget of CBS[].[/size][/#000080]
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[Out4Trout]

[]Great info,Sensai TD, but I gotta quick question. On sharpening with a stone, do you need to have some type of lubrication such as honing oil, or water, or do some stones require lube, and others don't? Could you please set me straight on that? As for my crappy sharpening techniques, I have a diamond sharpener that my wife got at Williams and Sonoma with a gift certificate that we got that also supposedly does seraded knives, but I guess all I'm doing to my knives is taking off too much metal? Thanks in advance for your answers to these questions. I've learned a lot already.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][size 1]Hey, O4T, you have raised one of those questions that can provoke a heated argument among knife nuts. [/size]

[size 1]If you read through some of the info in the links, I seem to recall that one of them nixed the use of oil on the stones. I used to use oil on my sharpening stones, but haven't done so for a long time. The oil seems to collect the mixture of metal filings and stone dust and gradually fills in the spaces between the cutting surfaces. After a while you are just rubbing your knife blade over a slick, oily mess and you are not cutting steel.[/size]

[size 1]If I am doing some "heavy work"...putting on a new edge...on a new knife, or one that has been used heavily since the last touchup...I set up next to the sink. I either hold the stone under a slow stream of water or at least rinse it under water every few seconds. This flushes out the debris and keeps good cutting surfaces available.[/size]

[size 1]That's with the coarse side of the stone. For the fine side...and for the softer finishing stones...I may not use any water at all. I do rinse them before I start, to clean out the stone powder and metal left over from the last use.[/size]

[size 1]As for the diamond hones, they are a good thing to have...especially for the rough sharpening chores. But, a good two sided stone is not expensive. I have one that I paid almost $20 for in a high class tackletorium many years ago. I also have one I bought for $1.50 in one of those discount tool places. I gotta say that the cheapie does a fine job, but the fine grit side is not quite as fine as I like for finishing the edges.[/size]

[size 1]I get asked a lot about serrated knives. I did not include any "Ginsu" knives in the pics I posted. Nor did I include a big serrated blade "bread knive" that I recovered from a friend's restaurant when he was going to throw it out because it was dull and he couldn't sharpen it (I could, I did, and it is now very dangerous.) I do use and appreciate serrated knives on occasion.[/size]

[size 1]If you fillet big catfish, walleye or striper or wiper, a serrated blade knife can make the job of cutting down through the heavy bones of the rib cages much easier. Of course, if you use an electric knife, you are already using a serrated blade.[/size]

[size 1]Sharpening serrated blades is akin to sharpening an ice auger. You do not have to sharpen the whole blade, but the points of the serrations DO need to be touched up once in awhile. That's where the little round diamond hone in my picture comes in handy. A few light strokes between each point on the serrations and you are ready to slab some bigguns.[/size]

[size 1]There are several key factors in knife sharpening. First is the quality of the steel in the knife blade. Hard steel takes longer to prepare, but holds a good edge much longer. [/size]

[size 1]Second, is the angle of the cutting edge. For routine kitchen use, you can get by with a "chisel" shaped edge. For slicing fillets and skinning them, a slower tapered edge works better. You need to develop the ability to hold your knives at just the right angle while moving them across the sharpening surface. At the very least you can end up with scratches on your new knife blade. At worst you will end up with a rounded and uneven edge...which affects clean cutting.[/size]

[size 1]Third would be the type of sharpener you use. I actually use hardened files for some preliminary work on a new blade...or one that has been dinged a lot. But, a good diamond hone or carborundum stone is preferred.[/size]

[size 1]Fourth would be the amount of pressure you apply while sharpening. Start out with heavier pressure. Do your fine finishing with whisper soft strokes on the stone, followed by medium heavy strokes on a good steel or ceramic edge.[/size]

[size 1]Last would be time. Do not keep sharpening on the coarse stone after you have achieved a basic sharpness. You will just be removing steel that does not need removing. Go early to the smoother stone and do not try to get a razor edge with the stone alone. That usually takes some final strokes on the steel or ceramic.[/size]

[size 1]A hint. If you are touching up your knives somewhere you do not have a steel or ceramic rod, you can use other things to "de-burr" the edge and finish it off. I sometimes lay a piece of dry cardboard or heavy paper on a flat surface and do a few strokes on that. I have also used the shaft of a screwdriver or even a smooth unpainted metal surface on some other tool or fixture. Oh yeah, I have also used a heavy leather belt...like the old razor strops in the barber shops (anybody old enough to remember those?). Again, maintain smooth strokes at exactly the same angle...going back and forth from the smooth stone to the finishing surface until you have the edge you want.[/size]

[size 1]Now see whatcha did. Ya got me started again.[/size]
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[FlyFishingMoose]

OK TD, Do you recomend a stone or a steel to sharpen knives. I cannot use a stone because I cannot keep the angle correct but can sharpen a knife to a rezors edge with a steel I have a good one, but I also have a cheapie which works to keep the edge but I won't use it to sharpen
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[TubeDude]

[cool][size 1]Hey, FFM, whatever gets you through the night...with a sharp edge on your knife. I offered my insights and personal preferences, but I would never think to tell someone else that they are doing it wrong if it works for them.[/size]

[size 1]As I stated in my dissertation, it is generally better to use the stone for primary sharpening and the steel to finish off the rough edge. A steel is usually not rough enough to do much real sharpening, but it can help restore a flattened edge so that it seems like it is sharpening. As long as you can keep from making little ones out of big ones, you ain't doing it wrong.[/size]
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[Matador]

I have a Gatco knife sharpening kit. It is like the Lansky type. It works very well for maintaining a constant angle when sharpeing. While it may not be as sophisticated as the gear that TubeDude showed us it actually does a very good job on a knife with good steel. For a regular guy like me it serves well.

Here are some links that show you what it is.

[url "http://www.knivesplus.com/gatco-ga-10003.html"]http://www.knivesplus.com/gatco-ga-10003.html[/url]

[url "http://www.lansky.com/products/systems/standard.html"]http://www.lansky.com/products/systems/standard.html[/url]

Hope this helps.

m
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[TubeDude]

[cool][size 1]Hey, Matador, those setups are ideal for the guy who does have difficulty keeping a constant angle while cutting a new edge. The Lansky system has been around for years, and has really been a boon to the "sharpening challenged". Anything that will help keep the blade at the right angle will insure that you end up with a better edge.[/size]

[size 1]I referred to them vaguely, as fancy or costly systems. For some people, another $25 to $30 dollars...to sharpen a $10 knife...does not make sense. However, if you have invested in one or two quality blades...or a whole bunch of simply serviceable ones...then a blade positioning system is worth the investment.[/size]

[size 1]One of the really good things about such a system is the variety of stones. You can change the stone without removing the blade...working progressively down to the smoothest stone for the finest edge.[/size]

[size 1]Those are definitely well-received gifts for sportsmen...fishing or hunting. If you're good, you can convince the kitchen warden that she would reap the benefits of always having sharp kitchen knives.[/size]
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[FlyFishingMoose]

Thanks Matador! Both look like good deals I'll have to get one. I usually struggle until I can't stand the dull knives anymore then get the sharpening fever and do everything in the house!
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[Matador]

That last post was from me, Matador. I deleted my cookies and was not logged in.

m
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[Curtisfish]

Tube Dude,

I had a lansky set that ended up going with my old fishing partner when we parted ways. It was the only way I could get the same angle on both sides of the blade. I am currently trying to get lessons from my girlfriends dad. He uses an old reservoir butcher set. It has three progressively smoother stones that can be replaced easily if you need one that it is more coarse or smooth. The stones are on a rod mounted in a triangular pattern. As you rotate the stone from one to the next, it runs the stones through the oil reservoir in the base. He doesn't get the same angle on both sides, but the knives I have had him sharpen for me can shave big foot's arm. He said about the same that you did. You have to "train" the blade to your sharpening style. Once that is accomplished, you can keep the blade up very easily. I thought some of the guys might want to know of the butcher set in case they had an extra $150 bucks laying around and are as passionate about knives as you are. Of course, he does say that in using the entire stone instead of a small area, he is still on the original stones after 30 years. The web site here is just for visual reference and is not intended to be a sales pitch. Besides, I'm sure that they can be found cheaper than this.

[url "http://www.butcher-packer.com/pg_knives_stones_oil.htm"]http://www.butcher-packer.com/pg_knives_stones_oil.htm[/url]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][size 1]Hey C-fish, howya doin'? Wish I coulda been with you guys on Starvation the other day...even if you did jinx it for everybody (chuckle chuckle).[/size]

[size 1]I had a setup like that when I worked on the boats. It really did a nice job and was great for keeping my rack of about 13 knives in peak working condition. Only problem was that somebody broke into our boat one night and took both the knife rack and the sharpening kit. I didn't feel too "sharp" about that.[/size]
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[Curtisfish]

[blush]Well, I did wear my black michelin man suit. I think it worked like a black cat. All I had to do was cross thier path and....you read the results.[sly]

Enjoy the heat this week TD. I got up this morning to -2.[cool]
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[FlyFishingMoose]

I figured that, I'll look around before I think about buying anything.
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