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Electric Downriggers
#1
I'm Kicking around the idea of replacing my BigJon manual Downriggers for two electric downriggers.  I have read up on Cannon and Scotty and have pretty much narrowed it down to one of these two brands. I would probably get the Cannon Mag 10 STX or the Scotty 1101 mostly because of the swivel mount. 
I would like to hear the good and bad of each brand and model and any experiences you have with them. Are either easier to use or mount and connect to the boat? Any info wqould be appreciated. 
Thanks, EA
#2
Both are good...used to have cannon digi trolls when we had 2 downriggers. When we got a newer used boat, it came with 2 electric scotty's. We thought they did well ABC's were cheaper than the cannons we were looking at, so we went with another 2 scotty's to total 4. You will like either of them.
#3
One thing that bothers me on the Cannon Mag 5's that I picked up this spring is the automatic up switch. Currently if I hit the up switch it just takes off for the surface. So if I want to raise my ball up a few feet you have to keep ahold of the switch to get it to stop where you want it. It's not a deal breaker, just annoying.  

Other than that they are great to have.

Hopefully I can find a switch that will operate the way I want it to.
Live to hunt----- Hunt to live.
#4
(05-09-2020, 10:13 PM)elkantlers Wrote: I'm Kicking around the idea of replacing my BigJon manual Downriggers for two electric downriggers.  I have read up on Cannon and Scotty and have pretty much narrowed it down to one of these two brands. I would probably get the Cannon Mag 10 STX or the Scotty 1101 mostly because of the swivel mount. 
I would like to hear the good and bad of each brand and model and any experiences you have with them. Are either easier to use or mount and connect to the boat? Any info wqould be appreciated. 
Thanks, EA

My previous boat had two Cannon Mag 10s on it.  When I bought my new boat, I decided to give the Scotty's a try.  I just couldn't get used to the differences after using the Cannons for 11 years.  I put all 4 of the Scotty's on KSL and they sold in less than 24 hours.  I went back to 2 Mag 5s on the back corners, and 2 Mag 10s on the sides.  All have swivel bases.  Both will get the job done and if you haven't been using electrics, then the switch from manual to electric should be a smooth transition regardless of which brand you choose.

If you don't need the longer boom that comes with the Mag 10, the Mag 5 + the swivel base is $75 cheaper than the Mag 10 and $25 cheaper than the Scotty.  There may be a cheaper source out there, but when I was researching it, Hodges Marine out of Florid had the best prices I could find and shipping was free.  You really can't go wrong with either brand, but my recommendation would be to buy the Cannons.  
Big Grin
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I'm 78 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
"Free men do not ask permission to bear arms."
#5
I've been running Walker electrics for fifteen years now. When I bought my new to me current boat they came with 2 Scotty 1106 DR's. Like dubob I decided to try them and I wasn't able to adjust as well as I thought. When I sold my previous boat I did keep all 4 of my Walkers mounting them on current boat and I sold the Scotty's.
My take on this would be is hitch a ride on other boats with different downriggers. Knowing what you experienced will help determine your outcome. Not all DR's features are the same.
[Image: P3100003.jpg]
Harrisville UT
2000 7.3L F250 Superduty  '07 Columbia 2018 Fisherman XL Raymarine Element 9HV 4 Electric Walker Downriggers Uniden Solara VHF
#6
I would think about this, it works and will help you catch more fish
Cannon comes with this 
Positive Ion Control
Emits a fish attracting field of positive ions around the cable. Your boat emits negative ions, which can detract fish from coming near. Positive ion control releases a field of positive ions around the cable to bring the fish back where they belong – on your line.

if you buy another brand I would think about buying a Black Box
https://www.protroll.com/bb-all-chapters
#7
I've never been a big fan of Scott's, mainly because of the free fall down, like others I've never been able to adjust to it. 
ive always used cannons, started from manuls, then got electric ones. 
I have mag 10's (one newer and one old one) and just picked up a used Mag5 HS to replace the older super slow mag10.
#8
(05-11-2020, 12:59 AM)liketrolling Wrote: I would think about this, it works and will help you catch more fish
Cannon comes with this 
Positive Ion Control
Emits a fish attracting field of positive ions around the cable. Your boat emits negative ions, which can detract fish from coming near. Positive ion control releases a field of positive ions around the cable to bring the fish back where they belong – on your line.

if you buy another brand I would think about buying a Black Box
https://www.protroll.com/bb-all-chapters



Walkers do not require the black box as with most other electric downriggers. They have the positive ion control built in. I have never had the need for a black box in the fifteen years I've been using my DR's, same goes for the Scotty's I had. Walker also had their own original version of a black box in the beginning prior to protolls development but found it unnecessary to use it with built in ion control. Check what the pros and cons are of the black box before purchasing. With electrics make sure your electrical hookups are clean & secure. Aluminum boats are more apt to emit electrical field around boat scattering fish but its based on all power installations properly installed with good secure grounding throughout the boat.

www.walkerdownriggers.com
[Image: P3100003.jpg]
Harrisville UT
2000 7.3L F250 Superduty  '07 Columbia 2018 Fisherman XL Raymarine Element 9HV 4 Electric Walker Downriggers Uniden Solara VHF
#9
I have a small Scotty.  It has been very reliable.  I like the autostop on it and the simplicity of use.  You  an see the one I use in this video I made on Jordanelle.  https://youtu.be/kv35Efi0EI0  at 9:15
#10
I have Cannon Mag 10 STX.  My next boat will have Scotty Dowriggers.  Cannon has terrible cutomer support and the electrical connectors are garbage.  I cut mine off and replaced with Scotty connectors and no problems since. 

5 years of electrical engineering school tells me positive ions are marketing.  The "black box" is a term in Engineering for something someone else makes and you only know the inputs and outputs and nothing in between.  If your boat is properly grounded, you won't have a problem. 

I also hate the auto up on my Cannons because I stack on my downriggers.  I replaced the cable with 400 feet of Scotty braid downrigger line.  No more auto up.  No more humming.  No more lost stacker releases.  No marketing with positive ions. 

I take my boat to the PNW every year and fish on the ocean.  It's closer to the Scotty factory, I admit.  But guess how many of those boats, that run in the salt every day they go out use Cannons.  I've seen 2 in 8 years.  They all use Scotty downriggers.

Plus, if you need one tiny little part, they can send you a tiny little part.  So when the screw on the front end of your Cannon base falls out because of the cupped washer, you have to order an entirely new base just to get the screw.  At Scotty you can get every individual part and a lot of times, they send them to you, postage paid, for free.

Cannon is popular here because it's on the shelf.  But that's the only reason.  I'm not going to buy new Scottys for the boat.  I've adapted my Cannons enough to do the job I want them to do.  But, like I said at the beginning, my next boat will have Scottys.
#11
Looks like I will need to make a video of fish looking at my downrigger wire, I just got back from Flaming gorge
had the downrigger ball on the bottom, ON my fishfinder I could see lakers come and look at the ball

Kokanee that were 35 feet down I would see them come from the front of the boat get by the downrigger ball stop then go to the lure and get hooked.    one thing that was neat was a kokanee down 50 feet went stright up fast hit the squid that was down 33 feet, he was only 8" long
#12
I'm glad that the new fish finder is working out for you. Before long you won't have time to fish with all of the equipment that you have to keep an eye on.  Smile
Live to hunt----- Hunt to live.
#13
Thanks for all the comments. I don't know if I am any closer to which brand I should get though. lol
#14
(05-11-2020, 06:50 PM)Downriggerer Wrote: I have Cannon Mag 10 STX.  My next boat will have Scotty Dowriggers.  Cannon has terrible cutomer support and the electrical connectors are garbage.  I cut mine off and replaced with Scotty connectors and no problems since. 

5 years of electrical engineering school tells me positive ions are marketing.  The "black box" is a term in Engineering for something someone else makes and you only know the inputs and outputs and nothing in between.  If your boat is properly grounded, you won't have a problem. 

I also hate the auto up on my Cannons because I stack on my downriggers.  I replaced the cable with 400 feet of Scotty braid downrigger line.  No more auto up.  No more humming.  No more lost stacker releases.  No marketing with positive ions. 

I take my boat to the PNW every year and fish on the ocean.  It's closer to the Scotty factory, I admit.  But guess how many of those boats, that run in the salt every day they go out use Cannons.  I've seen 2 in 8 years.  They all use Scotty downriggers.

Plus, if you need one tiny little part, they can send you a tiny little part.  So when the screw on the front end of your Cannon base falls out because of the cupped washer, you have to order an entirely new base just to get the screw.  At Scotty you can get every individual part and a lot of times, they send them to you, postage paid, for free.

Cannon is popular here because it's on the shelf.  But that's the only reason.  I'm not going to buy new Scottys for the boat.  I've adapted my Cannons enough to do the job I want them to do.  But, like I said at the beginning, my next boat will have Scottys.

I'm a degreed electronic engineer and have over 40 years working on electronic equipment.  You and I could go round and round on what is, and what is not, the truth with regard to ion voltages on downrigger metal cables.  But I won't debate you about it on here because it wouldn't prove anything, neither of us will change our position, and others would just be Confused by it all.  Lets just say that you and I totally disagree on the concept and the application and let it go at that.

You like Scotty's - I'm happy for you.  I like Cannons - I'm happy for me.  There are good and bad with either one.  If you were to go back and fish on any of the Great Lakes, you would find Big Jon outsells all the other brands combined on the thousands of charter boats running every day of the season.   There simply isn't a single brand of DR out there that is all things to everybody.  Tight lines to you and have a great season even though your are forced to use what you consider an inferior product.
 
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I'm 78 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
"Free men do not ask permission to bear arms."
#15
(05-09-2020, 10:13 PM)elkantlers Wrote: I'm Kicking around the idea of replacing my BigJon manual Downriggers for two electric downriggers.  I have read up on Cannon and Scotty and have pretty much narrowed it down to one of these two brands. I would probably get the Cannon Mag 10 STX or the Scotty 1101 mostly because of the swivel mount. 
I would like to hear the good and bad of each brand and model and any experiences you have with them. Are either easier to use or mount and connect to the boat? Any info wqould be appreciated. 
Thanks, EA
Hard to beat the Cannon electrics i've been running them for 32 years.
#16
Does either Scotty or Canon allow you to raise the ball and then stop partway up say to release a shuttle Hawk and then continue raising up from there. I see that all of them have automatic raise to the water level but do some of them allow you to stop Midway?
#17
(05-12-2020, 12:15 AM)dubob Wrote:
(05-11-2020, 06:50 PM)Downriggerer Wrote: I have Cannon Mag 10 STX.  My next boat will have Scotty Dowriggers.  Cannon has terrible cutomer support and the electrical connectors are garbage.  I cut mine off and replaced with Scotty connectors and no problems since. 

5 years of electrical engineering school tells me positive ions are marketing.  The "black box" is a term in Engineering for something someone else makes and you only know the inputs and outputs and nothing in between.  If your boat is properly grounded, you won't have a problem. 

I also hate the auto up on my Cannons because I stack on my downriggers.  I replaced the cable with 400 feet of Scotty braid downrigger line.  No more auto up.  No more humming.  No more lost stacker releases.  No marketing with positive ions. 

I take my boat to the PNW every year and fish on the ocean.  It's closer to the Scotty factory, I admit.  But guess how many of those boats, that run in the salt every day they go out use Cannons.  I've seen 2 in 8 years.  They all use Scotty downriggers.

Plus, if you need one tiny little part, they can send you a tiny little part.  So when the screw on the front end of your Cannon base falls out because of the cupped washer, you have to order an entirely new base just to get the screw.  At Scotty you can get every individual part and a lot of times, they send them to you, postage paid, for free.

Cannon is popular here because it's on the shelf.  But that's the only reason.  I'm not going to buy new Scottys for the boat.  I've adapted my Cannons enough to do the job I want them to do.  But, like I said at the beginning, my next boat will have Scottys.


I'm a degreed electronic engineer and have over 40 years working on electronic equipment.  You and I could go round and round on what is, and what is not, the truth with regard to ion voltages on downrigger metal cables.  But I won't debate you about it on here because it wouldn't prove anything, neither of us will change our position, and others would just be Confused by it all.  Lets just say that you and I totally disagree on the concept and the application and let it go at that.

You like Scotty's - I'm happy for you.  I like Cannons - I'm happy for me.  There are good and bad with either one.  If you were to go back and fish on any of the Great Lakes, you would find Big Jon outsells all the other brands combined on the thousands of charter boats running every day of the season.   There simply isn't a single brand of DR out there that is all things to everybody.  Tight lines to you and have a great season even though your are forced to use what you consider an inferior product.
 

You're free to disagree on the "ions" created by supposedly running  milliamps of current running down a wire at 3V or less.  If you're happy with the black box, that's fine.  The math tells me it's a gimmick.  Also, taking off all the wire and seeing that the wire was crimped through a hole in the spool and was not otherwise connected to anything tells me, they aren't even running current down the wire unless they have an unreasonably large inductor inside the downrigger they would need to induce a current in the stainless steel downrigger wire, which is not a great conductor on a relative scale.  Not to mention what happens to electric fields when you put them in water.

I'm not saying fish aren't sensitive to electromagnetic fields.  I just have a hard time believing the downrigger or the black box is doing anything to create one.  And, serious question, because I don't know the answer, what are the ions they say they are creating?  Ions of water?

I painted my downrigger ball bright pink.  I can see fish coming up to them on the fish finder as well.  I have a plain lead ball and I see fish coming up to them on the fish finder too.  Kokanee, in particular, are curious fish.  So, we can agree to disagree.

But you seem unhappy that I criticized Cannon.  Other than the black box, where we agree to disagree, where was I wrong?  My electrical connectors did corrode.  I couldn't get parts for my downrigger, even simple ones like the mounting screw.  I had to buy a whole base for just the screw.  They have a chincy cupped washer to hold the screw in as it goes down the road which means the screw falls out.  Where am I wrong?  How are these not legitimate criticisms?  I had new screws machined at a shop so I could put C clips on them and prevent them from falling out, which is how it should have been done in the first place.  I know that people have cracked the spool on Cannon downriggers by using braid which applied too much pressure to the spool and cracked it.  Again, how is that not a legitimate criticism?  How is that not helpful to the OP when the criticism of the Cannon downrigger is legitimate? 

Also, I'm sure there are lots of people who like Big Jon downriggers.  I don't know much about them.  But, the Great Lakes are not the ocean and do not require the same durability as salt water.  I don't think anyone would argue that saltwater tests fishing gear more than any other type of water.  If that's true, why do people who fish in salt water choose Scotty?  Why do charter boats fishing for salmon in Alaska use Scotty and not Big Jon or Cannon or Walker, or anything else?  The answer is pretty plain to me.

All that said, if you are happy with the Cannons, that's great.  If you haven't experienced any problems with them, I envy you.  If you've never lost a fish because of their failures, I envy you even more. 

My Cannons work now that I have fixed the problems I had with them.  But, I do believe I bought an inferior product with inferior customer service because it was sold here in Utah.  And, I think the OP should know that.

I appreciate the good wishes, although I believe they are Tongue in cheek.  I sincerely hope your downriggers continue to work well for you and that they bring many fish to your dinner table and many days of enjoyment to your leisure time.  After all, I think we have more in common than we have that separates us.  By the way, what kind of electronics did you work on?  I did a lot of soldering in school on PCBs for home automation.  It was a great job.  I haven't soldered anything in probably a couple of years but you never forget the smell of flux burning on a nicely soldered processor.  Simpler days that I probably should have appreciated more at the time.

See you on the water.

(05-12-2020, 03:18 AM)elkantlers Wrote: Does either Scotty or Canon allow you to raise the ball and then stop partway up say to release a shuttle Hawk and then continue raising up from there. I see that all of them have automatic raise to the water level but do some of them allow you to stop Midway?

With Cannons and the stainless steel wire, you have to watch for the stop point and push down on the lever to cancel the automatic up.  Scotty allows you to stop any time.  But, my understanding is, you have to hold the lever in your hand while you are bringing the ball up and then release the lever when you want it to stop.  So, there is a tradeoff.
#18
Fieh307.com sells all the individual piece parts for cannon, including the plugs. Wrote:Fieh307.com sells all the individual piece parts for cannon, including the plugs.

were/are your plugs the old style or the new yellow ones? 
#19
(05-12-2020, 05:32 PM)TRUBBS Wrote:
Fieh307.com sells all the individual piece parts for cannon, including the plugs. Wrote:Fieh307.com sells all the individual piece parts for cannon, including the plugs.

were/are your plugs the old style or the new yellow ones? 

The new yellow ones with the 2 prong connector.
#20
Downriggerer,

I sent you a PM.
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I'm 78 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
"Free men do not ask permission to bear arms."


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