Snowdog or not to Snowdog?

[DanzTuna]

It's getting tougher on the knees and back to haul all the ice gear any distance from the shore and any amount of slush makes it nearly impossible to venture out without fearing a heart attack.  Been thinking about taking the plunge and buying some type of machine to drag the sleds.  I would greatly appreciate any comments, suggestions, pro-cons of Snowdogs vs snowmobile, etc. Anything I should be aware of before final decision.  Thanks

Dan

[joatmon]

I have a couple of casual observations on snowdogs, not a snowdog or snowmobile owner or user.

Snowdogs seem to be able to haul a lot of gear/people across the ice.

I saw one on Strawberry 2 winters ago have a hard time with slush. But everything else did too.

I saw a snowdog last week pull three sleds loaded with gear up a steep bank (the "driver" walked beside it).

Good luck with your decision. If you decide on a snowmobile, I know someone who may be selling their two seater soon.

[SkunkedAgain]

Have you ridden snowmobiles in the past? If so and you are comfortable with them, I'd say stick with a snowmobile... if not snowmobiles can be a little tricky to learn how to keep them running, ride without getting stuck and turn without falling off... However, if you know snowmobiles, they are way more powerful and better for most conditions you'll face ice fishing... If you are a skilled rider even slush can be concurred on the snowmobile as long as you don't stop in a bad spot... Where you get in trouble is when you hook up too many sleds behind your snowmobile and try to get them going in the slush... Now the advantages of the dog, you currently don't have to license them, rumor has it that you don't need a trailer with them, they fit in the back of a pick up or some folks use a luggage rack on the receiver hitch or put the back seats down in SUV's and have room... They probably use a lot less fuel too... on flat ice and not too deep of snow they probably would do just as well as a snowmobile, but when the snow gets deeper or slushy, I'd hate to get one of them stuck... They are lighter than a snowmobile, so you can use them with thinner ice... But I suspect they can't pull as heavy of a load as a snowmobile, if you have a flip shelter that is bigger, you will probably want a snowmobile... I have an x-200 and I doubt a dog can pull that shelter unless there is no snow on the ice... But I'm open to let someone with a dog try it so we'll both know... Anyway there a few things to think about anyway... Later J

[DanzTuna]

Have you ridden snowmobiles in the past?  If so and you are comfortable with them, I'd say stick with a snowmobile... if not snowmobiles can be a little tricky to learn how to keep them running, ride without getting stuck and turn without falling off... However, if you know snowmobiles, they are way more powerful and better for most conditions you'll face ice fishing... If you are a skilled rider even slush can be concurred on the snowmobile as long as you don't stop in a bad spot... Where you get in trouble is when you hook up too many sleds behind your snowmobile and try to get them going in the slush...  Now the advantages of the dog, you currently don't have to license them, rumor has it that you don't need a trailer with them, they fit in the back of a pick up or some folks use a luggage rack on the receiver hitch or put the back seats down in SUV's and have room...  They probably use a lot less fuel too... on flat ice and not too deep of snow they probably would do just as well as a snowmobile, but when the snow gets deeper or slushy, I'd hate to get one of them stuck... They are lighter than a snowmobile, so you can use them with thinner ice... But I suspect they can't pull as heavy of a load as a snowmobile, if you have a flip shelter that is bigger, you will probably want a snowmobile... I have an x-200 and I doubt a dog can pull that shelter unless there is no snow on the ice... But I'm open to let someone with a dog try it so we'll both know...  Anyway there a few things to think about anyway... Later J

Thanks guys- your comments and suggestions are much appreciated!

[MACMAN]

It's getting tougher on the knees and back to haul all the ice gear any distance from the shore and any amount of slush makes it nearly impossible to venture out without fearing a heart attack.  Been thinking about taking the plunge and buying some type of machine to drag the sleds.  I would greatly appreciate any comments, suggestions, pro-cons of Snowdogs vs snowmobile, etc. Anything I should be aware of before final decision.  Thanks

Dan

I have a snowdog and grew up with snow machines. Here’s my POV- a SnowDog is a tool that fits my specific need of not having space to store machines, another trailer and ease of hauling to the lake. If I had an additional garage, a snowmobile trailer and an extra 25k to purchase all that, I would have machines, otherwise the snowdog gets the job done. The snowdog pulls an incredible amount. I regularly tow 5 sleds with 4 adults without issue. I’ve been in up to 12-15” of fresh snow with no issues. I would say it has performed exactly how I thought it would when I bought it 3 seasons ago. I don’t take it every time I go, but it is really nice when I need it. I’m in it about 5k with the extras and sleds, which the Snowdog sleds are worth every penny. I have 3. Now the cons- it’s a little jankey on how it’s put together. It kind of seems Frankenstein assembled in a garage. You need to know a bit about maintenance to keep it operating optimally (not unlike snowmobiles).  I have yet to break down or be stuck, even in moderate slush. Some small things like turning the gas off at each stop, killing the motor to shift from reverse to forward, etc. kind of get old, but manageable. My biggest issue was a stuck wide open throttle backing it out of the bed of my truck. That was harrowing. I am now a little scared of my dog. I will always start it so if it wants to bolt like that again, it will run into a stop and not take off. That almost ended in a trip to the ER, possibly in a helicopter. It’s a known problem they have not addressed. If you buy one, get the biggest model they offer and get reverse for sure. If a major manufacturer can put some R&D into a snowdog, it would be incredible. I would love a Polaris snowdog.

[SkunkedAgain]

So how did you get your dog stopped? Was it the throttle stuck wide open because of moisture freezing on the slides? I had that issue on an older snowmobile with aluminum slides in the carburetor.. They changed to chome plated steel in the newer ones, I think to avoid that problem... Was really glad for a kill switch when I had my issue... Glad no one got hurt too bad with yours... Power toys are always a risk you sure have to be careful with...

[MACMAN]

So how did you get your dog stopped?  Was it the throttle stuck wide open because of moisture freezing on the slides?  I had that issue on an older snowmobile with aluminum slides in the carburetor.. They changed to chome plated steel in the newer ones, I think to avoid that problem... Was really glad for a kill switch when I had my issue... Glad no one got hurt too bad with yours... Power toys are always a risk you sure have to be careful with...

Lucky was the key word that day. We were at Rockport parked on one side of the ramp. There were trucks on the opposite side. When it came out it veered uphill and shot across the ramp just missed the last truck parked. It hit the snow bank the parks had created plowing the ramp. It flipped on its side flooding out and killed. I had the kill switch tether on and it pulled, did not cut off the motor- see my jankey assembly comment. I’ve since got the kill switch operational. I was standing inside the rungs of the ramp when it took off, barely jumped in time for my legs to clear the ramps and it took me out. I had to watch it fly across the ramp hoping it didn’t crush into the truck it was heading for. Kinda sounds funny now, but I assure you I wasn’t amused then. 

Now for the cause as I understand it…I’m hoping there’s a small engine mechanic on here that can confirm, deny or educate if there’s something I can do to guarantee it won’t happen again. Sorry this will be long.  I maintain my cables, linkages and throttle body- those were not the cause. As I understand it (through google mostly), is Snowdog uses a multi purpose Briggs motor. The engine has a magnetic governor wheel inside the crank that has a linkage that will add throttle we the motor bogs down. Think of a set throttle use such as a lawn mower hitting thick grass, as the motor slows it automatically accelerates to accommodate the bogging down. Apparently, this linkage freezes up inside the engine. There is very little movement in the linkage but supposedly if you verify that linkage has the 1/16” movement, it won’t start at full throttle. I cannot verify that is the solution, but I check that every time I start it now- for sure. I have read that you cannot just disconnect the spring on that linkage, which I thought would cure the issue. Unfortunately I’m not 100% sure of the cause, therefore the fear of it happening again still exists. Why Snowdog uses an engine that is built for set throttle use is beyond me. One of the issues that would be resolved if a major manufacturer get on board and builds one. My start up routine is to attach kill switch tether, check for free movement in throttle system, check for movement in governor and aim the machine in a safe direction. Still a little nervous. BTW- I’ve never heard of a carb slide…I guess I have more research to do.

[SkunkedAgain]

Wow glad it didn't get you that would have been brutal. Sorry the slides I mentioned are in Mikuni carburetors they are either round cylinders that move up and down opening an airway, or on some models they are a flat gate that slides up and down doing the same function... I forgot the carbs on the briggs motor is like a round disc that rotates opening the air passage, so it's likely it wouldn't be effected the same way, unless the ice kept it from rotating closed... Anyway moisture freezing in carbs on really cold days has been an issue for me from time to time.. sometimes when a bunch of powder gets sucked in, it can cause freeze up issues as well... Not the issue you had though, hope you have that figured out, it's scary to have that happen and not be sure how to prevent it... Good luck... J

[DanzTuna]

Maybe I should wait for thicker ice and take my SXS out...lol

[SkunkedAgain]

SXS will work as long as the snow doesn't get too deep, we haven't had that problem for a couple years so maybe no worries... not sure how much ice they take to be safe, but I know they are a lot heavier than the snowmobile... I usually want 5-6" before I take my snowmobile on the ice... Later J

[DanzTuna]

SXS will work as long as the snow doesn't get too deep, we haven't had that problem for a couple years so maybe no worries... not sure how much ice they take to be safe, but I know they are a lot heavier than the snowmobile... I usually want 5-6" before I take my snowmobile on the ice... Later J

I don't think I would trust anything under 8-10" of clear ice.  My Commander is a two seater but it's pretty heavy.

[SkunkedAgain]

SXS will work as long as the snow doesn't get too deep, we haven't had that problem for a couple years so maybe no worries... not sure how much ice they take to be safe, but I know they are a lot heavier than the snowmobile... I usually want 5-6" before I take my snowmobile on the ice... Later J

I don't think I would trust anything under 8-10" of clear ice.  My Commander is a two seater but it's pretty heavy.

I have a Kawasaki Teyrx  and it's sure heavy too.  I was amazed how bad it bent my loading ramps when i first bought it... So I think your thinking is pretty good... Mine won't start very good in the winter, so I haven't ever tried it on the ice, but it would be nice if the snow was shallow and ice thick.... but so far my sled is easier, so I use it... later J

[MrShane]

So how did you get your dog stopped?  Was it the throttle stuck wide open because of moisture freezing on the slides?  I had that issue on an older snowmobile with aluminum slides in the carburetor.. They changed to chome plated steel in the newer ones, I think to avoid that problem... Was really glad for a kill switch when I had my issue... Glad no one got hurt too bad with yours... Power toys are always a risk you sure have to be careful with...

Lucky was the key word that day. We were at Rockport parked on one side of the ramp. There were trucks on the opposite side. When it came out it veered uphill and shot across the ramp just missed the last truck parked. It hit the snow bank the parks had created plowing the ramp. It flipped on its side flooding out and killed. I had the kill switch tether on and it pulled, did not cut off the motor- see my jankey assembly comment. I’ve since got the kill switch operational. I was standing inside the rungs of the ramp when it took off, barely jumped in time for my legs to clear the ramps and it took me out. I had to watch it fly across the ramp hoping it didn’t crush into the truck it was heading for. Kinda sounds funny now, but I assure you I wasn’t amused then. 

Now for the cause as I understand it…I’m hoping there’s a small engine mechanic on here that can confirm, deny or educate if there’s something I can do to guarantee it won’t happen again. Sorry this will be long.  I maintain my cables, linkages and throttle body- those were not the cause. As I understand it (through google mostly), is Snowdog uses a multi purpose Briggs motor. The engine has a magnetic governor wheel inside the crank that has a linkage that will add throttle we the motor bogs down. Think of a set throttle use such as a lawn mower hitting thick grass, as the motor slows it automatically accelerates to accommodate the bogging down. Apparently, this linkage freezes up inside the engine. There is very little movement in the linkage but supposedly if you verify that linkage has the 1/16” movement, it won’t start at full throttle. I cannot verify that is the solution, but I check that every time I start it now- for sure. I have read that you cannot just disconnect the spring on that linkage, which I thought would cure the issue. Unfortunately I’m not 100% sure of the cause, therefore the fear of it happening again still exists. Why Snowdog uses an engine that is built for set throttle use is beyond me. One of the issues that would be resolved if a major manufacturer get on board and builds one. My start up routine is to attach kill switch tether, check for free movement in throttle system, check for movement in governor and aim the machine in a safe direction. Still a little nervous. BTW- I’ve never heard of a carb slide…I guess I have more research to do.

Hey Mac,
You are right, it is stupid to use a fixed throttle engine on a machine like that.
There has never been a snowmobile built with a throttle like that.
Google ‘small engine governor over ride’ or similar and you will find an easy fix.
You are a very lucky man to not get pinched in your ramps, also very lucky the track did not grab some of your clothing and suck it in.

[MACMAN]

So how did you get your dog stopped?  Was it the throttle stuck wide open because of moisture freezing on the slides?  I had that issue on an older snowmobile with aluminum slides in the carburetor.. They changed to chome plated steel in the newer ones, I think to avoid that problem... Was really glad for a kill switch when I had my issue... Glad no one got hurt too bad with yours... Power toys are always a risk you sure have to be careful with...

Lucky was the key word that day. We were at Rockport parked on one side of the ramp. There were trucks on the opposite side. When it came out it veered uphill and shot across the ramp just missed the last truck parked. It hit the snow bank the parks had created plowing the ramp. It flipped on its side flooding out and killed. I had the kill switch tether on and it pulled, did not cut off the motor- see my jankey assembly comment. I’ve since got the kill switch operational. I was standing inside the rungs of the ramp when it took off, barely jumped in time for my legs to clear the ramps and it took me out. I had to watch it fly across the ramp hoping it didn’t crush into the truck it was heading for. Kinda sounds funny now, but I assure you I wasn’t amused then. 

Now for the cause as I understand it…I’m hoping there’s a small engine mechanic on here that can confirm, deny or educate if there’s something I can do to guarantee it won’t happen again. Sorry this will be long.  I maintain my cables, linkages and throttle body- those were not the cause. As I understand it (through google mostly), is Snowdog uses a multi purpose Briggs motor. The engine has a magnetic governor wheel inside the crank that has a linkage that will add throttle we the motor bogs down. Think of a set throttle use such as a lawn mower hitting thick grass, as the motor slows it automatically accelerates to accommodate the bogging down. Apparently, this linkage freezes up inside the engine. There is very little movement in the linkage but supposedly if you verify that linkage has the 1/16” movement, it won’t start at full throttle. I cannot verify that is the solution, but I check that every time I start it now- for sure. I have read that you cannot just disconnect the spring on that linkage, which I thought would cure the issue. Unfortunately I’m not 100% sure of the cause, therefore the fear of it happening again still exists. Why Snowdog uses an engine that is built for set throttle use is beyond me. One of the issues that would be resolved if a major manufacturer get on board and builds one. My start up routine is to attach kill switch tether, check for free movement in throttle system, check for movement in governor and aim the machine in a safe direction. Still a little nervous. BTW- I’ve never heard of a carb slide…I guess I have more research to do.

Hey Mac,
You are right, it is stupid to use a fixed throttle engine on a machine like that.
There has never been a snowmobile built with a throttle like that.
Google ‘small engine governor over ride’ or similar and you will find an easy fix.
You are a very lucky man to not get pinched in your ramps, also very lucky the track did not grab some of your clothing and suck it in.

I will definitely check that out. Thanks. My research was more directed specifically at SnowDogs, not small engines in general. The explanation I got was the spring on the linkage was to keep it from engaging in full throttle, therefore removing it would produce full throttle position. I’ll look into it more. You’re right, I was lucky on a lot of levels that day- could have ended really ugly. I still love the thing. It is an absolute beast, just a little finicky.

[MrShane]

So how did you get your dog stopped?  Was it the throttle stuck wide open because of moisture freezing on the slides?  I had that issue on an older snowmobile with aluminum slides in the carburetor.. They changed to chome plated steel in the newer ones, I think to avoid that problem... Was really glad for a kill switch when I had my issue... Glad no one got hurt too bad with yours... Power toys are always a risk you sure have to be careful with...

Lucky was the key word that day. We were at Rockport parked on one side of the ramp. There were trucks on the opposite side. When it came out it veered uphill and shot across the ramp just missed the last truck parked. It hit the snow bank the parks had created plowing the ramp. It flipped on its side flooding out and killed. I had the kill switch tether on and it pulled, did not cut off the motor- see my jankey assembly comment. I’ve since got the kill switch operational. I was standing inside the rungs of the ramp when it took off, barely jumped in time for my legs to clear the ramps and it took me out. I had to watch it fly across the ramp hoping it didn’t crush into the truck it was heading for. Kinda sounds funny now, but I assure you I wasn’t amused then. 

Now for the cause as I understand it…I’m hoping there’s a small engine mechanic on here that can confirm, deny or educate if there’s something I can do to guarantee it won’t happen again. Sorry this will be long.  I maintain my cables, linkages and throttle body- those were not the cause. As I understand it (through google mostly), is Snowdog uses a multi purpose Briggs motor. The engine has a magnetic governor wheel inside the crank that has a linkage that will add throttle we the motor bogs down. Think of a set throttle use such as a lawn mower hitting thick grass, as the motor slows it automatically accelerates to accommodate the bogging down. Apparently, this linkage freezes up inside the engine. There is very little movement in the linkage but supposedly if you verify that linkage has the 1/16” movement, it won’t start at full throttle. I cannot verify that is the solution, but I check that every time I start it now- for sure. I have read that you cannot just disconnect the spring on that linkage, which I thought would cure the issue. Unfortunately I’m not 100% sure of the cause, therefore the fear of it happening again still exists. Why Snowdog uses an engine that is built for set throttle use is beyond me. One of the issues that would be resolved if a major manufacturer get on board and builds one. My start up routine is to attach kill switch tether, check for free movement in throttle system, check for movement in governor and aim the machine in a safe direction. Still a little nervous. BTW- I’ve never heard of a carb slide…I guess I have more research to do.

Hey Mac,
You are right, it is stupid to use a fixed throttle engine on a machine like that.
There has never been a snowmobile built with a throttle like that.
Google ‘small engine governor over ride’ or similar and you will find an easy fix.
You are a very lucky man to not get pinched in your ramps, also very lucky the track did not grab some of your clothing and suck it in.

I will definitely check that out. Thanks. My research was more directed specifically at SnowDogs, not small engines in general. The explanation I got was the spring on the linkage was to keep it from engaging in full throttle, therefore removing it would produce full throttle position. I’ll look into it more. You’re right, I was lucky on a lot of levels that day- could have ended really ugly. I still love the thing. It is an absolute beast, just a little finicky.

Also check out some go cart forums, they do it all the time on all brands of small engines.

[Troutster]

I posed the same question on this board 2 years ago and ended up getting a snowmobile. No regrets but not 100% sure it's the best option for me. I didn't want a beater sled that required wrenching or stranding me on the lake. Low mileage late model trail sleds are very rare on KSL. Most are big mountain sleds, or old beaters. I got a low mileage 2015 Skidoo Summit 800. It is an absolute rocket. Talk about overkill, but it runs flawlessly, never gets stuck, and I don't have to do much to keep it that way. I got it for about the same price as a new SnowDog with a couple of sleds. I zip, with 2 or 3 sleds and one passenger, across Strawberry at 35+ mph. We can cover a lot of ground that way. BUT, with more that 1 friend I have to make multiple trips. So not really faster than a Dog. I realize I could put people in sleds behind my snowmobile and did so a few times at first. Sleds roost too much snow and its dangerous towing someone much over 15mph. I have plenty of space to store my sled but a smaller footprint in my shed would still be nice. I sometimes wonder how long my 800 will be reliable relative to a low hp Briggs and Stratton would be. Probably a freak think but I broke a front shock last year. Don't know when or how but it was a couple hundred to replace. I think there will be a learning curve with either machine. The Dogs look tippy in powder. My first time at Strawberry on my snowmobile was a disaster. My nephew and I had new to us snowmobiles and we tipped over, got stuck and ended up parking by my truck and walking down the ramp and fishing right there. Granted that was going overland thru deep powder to a nearby cove. I have never been stuck or tipped over, (on the ice) again. I figured it out and love it now and can't wait for the ice. If money wasn't an issue I'd get a 600cc trail machine. I think with a dog I would still be towing a trailer behind my truck. I don't think I could fit my sleds, fishing gear, and the dog in the bed of my truck. Good luck in your search.

[DanzTuna]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts- I'm still thinking, and thinking...

[Country7227]

If the motor has a low level sensor, most of them have one. You can wire a kill switch into the wiring harness for the sensor.  That is how they are wired into go-carts, mud motors and so on. They are pretty cheap and you can find the kit on Amazon.

[wiperhunter2]

If the motor has a low level sensor, most of them have one. You can wire a kill switch into the wiring harness for the sensor.  That is how they are wired into go-carts, mud motors and so on. They are pretty cheap and you can find the kit on Amazon.

Great info, thanks for sharing it with us and welcome to the site.

[jjannie]

If the motor has a low level sensor, most of them have one. You can wire a kill switch into the wiring harness for the sensor.  That is how they are wired into go-carts, mud motors and so on. They are pretty cheap and you can find the kit on Amazon.

Welcome to the site! That's a nice idea about the kill switch. 

Do introduce yourself - places you mostly fish, boat? shore? Fly? Ice? etc.