Black Kokanee

[Bduck]

Came across this article of Black Kokanee, I'm not familiar with this species.

• Rediscovered in: 2010
  
  
• Where: Lake Saiko, Japan
  

[font="Segoe UI", "Segoe UI Midlevel", sans-serif]The black kokanee, a landlocked sockeye salmon species, was endemic to Lake Tazawa on the Japanese Island of Honshu. In 1940, a hydroelectric dam project led to the eventual deaths of all the kokanee in the lake. Prior to the project, over 100,000 kokanee eggs were transferred to Lake Saiko in an attempt to save the species. The attempt was assumed unsuccessful, however, until a local fisherman found a peculiar fish in Lake Saiko in 2010 that was later identified as a black kokanee.




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[SkunkedAgain]

Interesting how so many different things assumed to be extinct are showing up this year... Pretty cool, hope they can recover numbers so we can find out if they are fun to catch or not... Later J

[doitall5000]

Interesting story in Japan. There are kokanee strains in Canada that grow to 4 or 5 years before spawning, getting larger. There are are some that are very successful in spawning on the shore and don't need to use a river.
I've always advocated planting king salmon in strawberry in place of cutthroat. There may be good reasons not to plant kings, but they know lots more about this than me.

[SkunkedAgain]

Interesting story in Japan. There are kokanee strains in Canada that grow to 4 or 5 years before spawning, getting larger. There are are some that are very successful in spawning on the shore and don't need to use a river.
I've  always advocated planting king salmon in strawberry in place of cutthroat.  There may be good reasons not to plant kings, but they know lots more about this than me.

So I'm not fully caught up with salmon and what all the ins and outs are.  I heard Kokanee are land locked fish that can't get to the ocean to grow up, not sure whether they are an ocean going strain that got land locked and became Kokanee, or if they are a complete separate species, (I thought they were silvers that got land locked, but I don't know if that was from a reliable source or just someone's guess.) but to my knowledge Kings are an ocean going variety and I'm not sure they could stay in fresh water for their full lives and thrive... but again I haven't studied into that enough to know... Would be cool if they would live and grow to full size in a pond like Bear Lake, but that's a wild dream... I caught a really nice cutthroat at Bear Lake a few years back through the ice and as I watching it through the hole I thought it looked like a King salmon with the water magnification it looked huge... It was still a good fish 27", but it wasn't near as big as I thought it was... Later Jeff

[MrShane]

Interesting story in Japan. There are kokanee strains in Canada that grow to 4 or 5 years before spawning, getting larger. There are are some that are very successful in spawning on the shore and don't need to use a river.
I've  always advocated planting king salmon in strawberry in place of cutthroat.  There may be good reasons not to plant kings, but they know lots more about this than me.

130 years ago they were planted in The Jordan River.
It did not work out well for the Kings.

[smokepoles]

to my knowledge Kings are an ocean going variety and I'm not sure they could stay in fresh water for their full lives and thrive... but again I haven't studied into that enough to know... Would be cool if they would live and grow to full size in a pond like Bear Lake, but that's a wild dream... I caught a really nice cutthroat at Bear Lake a few years back through the ice and as I watching it through the hole I thought it looked like a King salmon with the water magnification it looked huge... It was still a good fish 27", but it wasn't near as big as I thought it was... Later Jeff

 
Chinook, coho, and pink salmon thrive in the fresh water Great Lakes and tributaries.

[stan55]

Fort Peck in Montana has a fishable Chinook fishery. On a side note I caught a fully black Koke in Fish Lake two years ago. I chalked it up to a mutation. Cool looking fish.

[BYUHunter]

Interesting story in Japan. There are kokanee strains in Canada that grow to 4 or 5 years before spawning, getting larger. There are are some that are very successful in spawning on the shore and don't need to use a river.
I've  always advocated planting king salmon in strawberry in place of cutthroat.  There may be good reasons not to plant kings, but they know lots more about this than me.

So I'm not fully caught up with salmon and what all the ins and outs are.  I heard Kokanee are land locked fish that can't get to the ocean to grow up, not sure whether they are an ocean going strain that got land locked and became Kokanee, or if they are a complete separate species, (I thought they were silvers that got land locked, but I don't know if that was from a reliable source or just someone's guess.) but to my knowledge Kings are an ocean going variety and I'm not sure they could stay in fresh water for their full lives and thrive... but again I haven't studied into that enough to know... Would be cool if they would live and grow to full size in a pond like Bear Lake, but that's a wild dream... I caught a really nice cutthroat at Bear Lake a few years back through the ice and as I watching it through the hole I thought it looked like a King salmon with the water magnification it looked huge... It was still a good fish 27", but it wasn't near as big as I thought it was... Later Jeff

Kokanee are genetically identical to Sockeye's or "Reds". The only difference being they are not able to migrate to salt, and some of the additional nutrients and size that allows their ocean-going brothers.

King Salmon are the same way. Anderson Ranch and Coeur d'Alene Lake are a few Idaho lakes that have land locked kings starting to show some size, so it could be done at Strawberry as well. 

I asked the lead biologist about planting Kings at Strawberry a couple of years ago, I believe the concern is how piscivorous Kings are, and that they would not only eat the chubs (the primary role of the Cutts), but also everything else. I also think there is a strong desire to keep Cutts as a prominent part of the fishery since they are "native".

[SkunkedAgain]

Interesting story in Japan. There are kokanee strains in Canada that grow to 4 or 5 years before spawning, getting larger. There are are some that are very successful in spawning on the shore and don't need to use a river.
I've  always advocated planting king salmon in strawberry in place of cutthroat.  There may be good reasons not to plant kings, but they know lots more about this than me.

So I'm not fully caught up with salmon and what all the ins and outs are.  I heard Kokanee are land locked fish that can't get to the ocean to grow up, not sure whether they are an ocean going strain that got land locked and became Kokanee, or if they are a complete separate species, (I thought they were silvers that got land locked, but I don't know if that was from a reliable source or just someone's guess.) but to my knowledge Kings are an ocean going variety and I'm not sure they could stay in fresh water for their full lives and thrive... but again I haven't studied into that enough to know... Would be cool if they would live and grow to full size in a pond like Bear Lake, but that's a wild dream... I caught a really nice cutthroat at Bear Lake a few years back through the ice and as I watching it through the hole I thought it looked like a King salmon with the water magnification it looked huge... It was still a good fish 27", but it wasn't near as big as I thought it was... Later Jeff

Kokanee are genetically identical to Sockeye's or "Reds". The only difference being they are not able to migrate to salt, and some of the additional nutrients and size that allows their ocean-going brothers.

King Salmon are the same way. Anderson Ranch and Coeur d'Alene Lake are a few Idaho lakes that have land locked kings starting to show some size, so it could be done at Strawberry as well. 

I asked the lead biologist about planting Kings at Strawberry a couple of years ago, I believe the concern is how piscivorous Kings are, and that they would not only eat the chubs (the primary role of the Cutts), but also everything else. I also think there is a strong desire to keep Cutts as a prominent part of the fishery since they are "native".

Thanks for the info, that's interesting... now you mention that I can see the reds in the spawning kokanee... except for the size difference..

[doitall5000]

Interesting story in Japan. There are kokanee strains in Canada that grow to 4 or 5 years before spawning, getting larger. There are are some that are very successful in spawning on the shore and don't need to use a river.
I've  always advocated planting king salmon in strawberry in place of cutthroat.  There may be good reasons not to plant kings, but they know lots more about this than me.

So I'm not fully caught up with salmon and what all the ins and outs are.  I heard Kokanee are land locked fish that can't get to the ocean to grow up, not sure whether they are an ocean going strain that got land locked and became Kokanee, or if they are a complete separate species, (I thought they were silvers that got land locked, but I don't know if that was from a reliable source or just someone's guess.) but to my knowledge Kings are an ocean going variety and I'm not sure they could stay in fresh water for their full lives and thrive... but again I haven't studied into that enough to know... Would be cool if they would live and grow to full size in a pond like Bear Lake, but that's a wild dream... I caught a really nice cutthroat at Bear Lake a few years back through the ice and as I watching it through the hole I thought it looked like a King salmon with the water magnification it looked huge... It was still a good fish 27", but it wasn't near as big as I thought it was... Later Jeff

Kokanee are genetically identical to Sockeye's or "Reds". The only difference being they are not able to migrate to salt, and some of the additional nutrients and size that allows their ocean-going brothers.

King Salmon are the same way. Anderson Ranch and Coeur d'Alene Lake are a few Idaho lakes that have land locked kings starting to show some size, so it could be done at Strawberry as well. 

I asked the lead biologist about planting Kings at Strawberry a couple of years ago, I believe the concern is how piscivorous Kings are, and that they would not only eat the chubs (the primary role of the Cutts), but also everything else. I also think there is a strong desire to keep Cutts as a prominent part of the fishery since they are "native".

Thanks for the info, that's interesting... now you mention that I can see the reds in the spawning kokanee... except for the size difference..

Sooo don't you think cutts, "are eating everything "?

[wiperhunter2]

King Salmon are the same way. Anderson Ranch and Coeur d'Alene Lake are a few Idaho lakes that have land locked kings starting to show some size, so it could be done at Strawberry as well. 

I asked the lead biologist about planting Kings at Strawberry a couple of years ago, I believe the concern is how piscivorous Kings are, and that they would not only eat the chubs (the primary role of the Cutts), but also everything else. I also think there is a strong desire to keep Cutts as a prominent part of the fishery since they are "native".

Do Kings reproduce at Anderson Ranch and Coeur d'Alene, I heard they could not naturally reproduce or had been somehow changed so they couldn't reproduce. If that were the case then they would be no different than wipers or tiger muskie, where their numbers could be controlled. IMO, the cutts in the Berry could stand to be thinned out, so those that remain would get bigger.

[stan55]

Flaming Gorge is a better option. Plenty of pup lakers available. But they would also decimate the Kokanee. Same would happen at Strawberry which I think is too small anyway. Fort Peck has a huge cisco population which supports the kings.

[doitall5000]

Flaming Gorge is a better option. Plenty of pup lakers available. But they would also decimate the Kokanee. Same would happen at Strawberry which I think is too small anyway. Fort Peck has a huge cisco population which supports the kings.

Hay Stan how was you day on jordanelle yesterday??

[BYUHunter]

Interesting story in Japan. There are kokanee strains in Canada that grow to 4 or 5 years before spawning, getting larger. There are are some that are very successful in spawning on the shore and don't need to use a river.
I've  always advocated planting king salmon in strawberry in place of cutthroat.  There may be good reasons not to plant kings, but they know lots more about this than me.

So I'm not fully caught up with salmon and what all the ins and outs are.  I heard Kokanee are land locked fish that can't get to the ocean to grow up, not sure whether they are an ocean going strain that got land locked and became Kokanee, or if they are a complete separate species, (I thought they were silvers that got land locked, but I don't know if that was from a reliable source or just someone's guess.) but to my knowledge Kings are an ocean going variety and I'm not sure they could stay in fresh water for their full lives and thrive... but again I haven't studied into that enough to know... Would be cool if they would live and grow to full size in a pond like Bear Lake, but that's a wild dream... I caught a really nice cutthroat at Bear Lake a few years back through the ice and as I watching it through the hole I thought it looked like a King salmon with the water magnification it looked huge... It was still a good fish 27", but it wasn't near as big as I thought it was... Later Jeff

Kokanee are genetically identical to Sockeye's or "Reds". The only difference being they are not able to migrate to salt, and some of the additional nutrients and size that allows their ocean-going brothers.

King Salmon are the same way. Anderson Ranch and Coeur d'Alene Lake are a few Idaho lakes that have land locked kings starting to show some size, so it could be done at Strawberry as well. 

I asked the lead biologist about planting Kings at Strawberry a couple of years ago, I believe the concern is how piscivorous Kings are, and that they would not only eat the chubs (the primary role of the Cutts), but also everything else. I also think there is a strong desire to keep Cutts as a prominent part of the fishery since they are "native".

Thanks for the info, that's interesting... now you mention that I can see the reds in the spawning kokanee... except for the size difference..

Sooo don't you think cutts, "are eating everything "?

Obviously piscivorous is piscivorous, but if you're going to be facetious, consider the difference in what a fish that struggles to get to 5 pounds, and a fish that can easily exceed 20 pounds, can eat.

---

King Salmon are the same way. Anderson Ranch and Coeur d'Alene Lake are a few Idaho lakes that have land locked kings starting to show some size, so it could be done at Strawberry as well. 

I asked the lead biologist about planting Kings at Strawberry a couple of years ago, I believe the concern is how piscivorous Kings are, and that they would not only eat the chubs (the primary role of the Cutts), but also everything else. I also think there is a strong desire to keep Cutts as a prominent part of the fishery since they are "native".

Do Kings reproduce at Anderson Ranch and Coeur d'Alene, I heard they could not naturally reproduce or had been somehow changed so they couldn't reproduce. If that were the case then they would be no different than wipers or tiger muskie, where their numbers could be controlled. IMO, the cutts in the Berry could stand to be thinned out, so those that remain would get bigger.

They have both sterile and fertile kings in these lakes, so it's both - some sterile for population control, but some fertile and capable of spawning: https://idfg.idaho.gov/press/anglers-sti...nook-study 

Agree that the Cutts at strawberry could stand to be thinned out. They can be an absolute nuisance at times, and in my opinion, it's not fun to catch 50 fish between 16" and 19". Would love to see the stocking slowed or the slot lifted, in favor of fewer, but larger, fish.

[Therapist]

Regarding Kings not thriving in fresh water !! Years ago that was the conventional widsom regarding Stripers in fresh water, until a your biologist at Lake Powell, by the name of Wayne Gustaveson, documented that they were spawning in Powell. That changed the whole idea about Stripers in fresh water. There have been Kings, Chinook, and Coho in the Great Lakes for decades, so there might be some positive reason to try Kings in Strawberry, except for the predatory nature of the species on other desirable fish !! Remember the line from Jurassic Park: "nature always finds a way" !!

[stan55]

Flaming Gorge is a better option. Plenty of pup lakers available. But they would also decimate the Kokanee. Same would happen at Strawberry which I think is too small anyway. Fort Peck has a huge cisco population which supports the kings.

Hay Stan how was you day on jordanelle yesterday??

Got one Koke and a few bows. Kind of slow day.